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Let me start by saying I'm not in any way advocating slavery or legalizing such an institution.
The overall moral and ethical aspects should be eliminated for the purpose of this question which is hypothetical.
The question is for riders and carriers .
1, In a society where it was legal and common to purchase a human slave, would you consider doing so specifically for the purpose of riding on
his/her shoulders or , carrying him/her if you are a carrier?
2,If you purchased this slave for other reasons, would you occasionally put him/her to use as a carrier or a rider?
3, what age, size, race and gender of slave would you choose to purchase for this task?
4, do you think it would be relatively common to see the slaves used for this task publically if slavery was an acceptable and legal practice?
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Hello Audrey ...
Well First of all, if this becomes the scenario - I will be the happiest person..
But the question is Whether the Slave or Carrier Like me Have its choice or not - Like in present case, I only want to be ridden by Female Riders.
If I become a slave, I will loose this freedom - which I will not agree to.
So concern here is of Willful Slaves or we can say - Role Plays between two agreeable parties.
Thanks.
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trigger: I don't see a problem in that the way I worded the question, you could simply buy a female slave who would be required to let you carry her on your shoulders.
Obviously, having a master carry a slave would be counterintuitive , but you could order her to behave as your master in this scenario for as long as she is sitting on you. The choices would still be yours and you could order her to be as dominant as you choose.
It wouldn't be as real as it might be if you were a real slave, but the choices would still be yours alone and the lucky slave girl would likely do her best to fulfill your desires since her position as a slave could of course be much worse.
Again I emphasize that I do not advocate slavery. I'm simply curious about the choices people would make without regard for any current moral or ethical issues being involved.
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Audrey -
Ya ur right in this case..I can buy a slave girl and let her ride me...
But its still happening , not in a legal sense, but yes informally.
If you take my case - I have got 100 percent Paid Rides -
- I pay the girl to ride me, she does it like what i want, even i choose with my preference, like sometime I go to heavy girls / Light / young /Old..etc etc..even 2 girls at a time
Though I am out of pocket and hardly have any savings, but yes I have fulfilled my desires.
Just sharing my views.
Thanks.
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Thanks, Audrey for raising such an interesting issue ... !
A slave is someone who is deprived of all his human rights, and forced to obey all orders from his master/Mistress ...
He will therefore be put to work, usually 12 hours a day, on a 365/365 basis ... And THAT is, I believe, the very reason why you would buy a slave : His work force! Not his SR ability.
That being said, part of his duties could be to be used as a transportation mean... This could be done in a shoulder riding mode, but in that way, the slave won't carry you very far, nor very long .. Let's say 30 minutes, 2 km, if you're light, if he is strong. More probably you will use your slave as a rickshaw-puller, where he would be much more efficient as a transportation mean!
Now, what kind of slave would you buy ?? Well, you will not wish to be a racist on top of being a slaver, will you ? So you will select your slave, not on his race, but only on his estimated capacities : He should be young, strong,submissive ... Strength being a key factor, you will probably purchase a male ...
What about public SR ? In former English/French... african colonies, black "servants" were commonly used to pull rickshaws, or carry sedan-chairs, and it was quite common. SR was probably less frequent, for the above mentioned reason, which is that SR is not an efficient way to provide long-range transportation. But as a game, it was probably possible ... (I used "" with the word servant, because, in the "good old time", less than 100 years ago, african servants were closer to slaves than to servants !).
Now what about legal slavery per se ? It seems to me it was abolished end 19th century partly because it was immoral, but mainly because of its lack of efficiency and flexibility versus the use of machinery and paid workers in a world of abundant and cheap energy. However, by abolishing ALL forms of slavery, the legislator also forbade VOLUNTARY slavery ... This could be an infringement on personal Liberty ?! And the reason why you won't find any good pony slave in our "humanrightist" world ...
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What a great subject, Audrey. Here in the UK we have a record number of slaves. I'm talking specifically about real slaves who are employed by mainly foreigners living in the UK or foreign-born residents in the UK. Most slaves perform unpaid domestic chores, usually for 12-18 hours a day and, yes, some of them are used by their masters and mistresses for... you know what. But I haven't heard of any being shoulder-rode by the masters or mistresses but it might happen, who knows?
Would I buy a slave if it was legal to do so? YES! Besides doing all my housework, cooking, shopping, gardening, I would naturally want to enjoy myself (on a daily/nightly basis) by having a very satisfying ride on his shoulders. I say 'his' rather than 'her' because I don't think many females would be able to give me the kind of shoulder ride I'd be looking for.
As for public shoulder riding, well, if it became acceptable to ride around on your slave's shoulders then I'll happily ride publically on my slave's shoulders. To be realist though I don't think it would be acceptable for masters and mistresses to ride around on their slaves' shoulders in public.
It has to be remembered, of course, that a slave is the master's or mistress's property. So a master or mistress can do what he likes with his or her property (although there are likely to be laws against ill-treating your slave or killing one that you own.
I remember reading in a history book many years ago that an Indian princeling (a boy of 13) had a personal slave and one of the things he liked to do was ride on his slave's shoulders around the family's estate. The boy was probably bone idle and because he had a personal slave he made use of him to carry him around.
But maybe Audrey's question is irrelevant. You don't actually need to buy or own a slave to enjoy a bit of shoulder riding. As members of this community know, there are quite a few human ponies who are very happy to give a rider a ride. Saying that, I wouldn't mind buying and riding a really muscular male slave who, with a whip in my hand, I could ride until he dropped!
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checkmateguy: I was actually interested in your input especially, because it was partially your information concerning riding Korean salt workers that got me to think about this subject.
The reason I used the hypothetical issue of real slavery in a morally and legally accepted manner isn't because I couldn't find a willing man to carry me, but rather because I think it would be interesting to have such a person completely at my disposal without regard to his desires in any way.
I would of course choose a male slave as well for practical reasons since I wouldn't be using him exclusively to ride upon. His strength and efforts would be put to whatever task I required and carry me only when I chose but also for as long as I chose.
I fully appreciate your situation as well. Currently, you choose your carriers from among those who willingly carry you and willingly obey your orders.
I can only assume that you enjoy riding him for a longer period than he enjoys carrying you, just as I do. You are of course limited to your carriers endurance even if he is masochistic since you will probably want to ride him again in the future.
But if you had a young muscular slave, you could sit on him without regard to his desires, spur him on beyond his limits each time and ride him until he dropped beneath you as you said. You may of course put him to other tasks as you see fit since he would be your property just as a horse your car or your furniture might be.
As for "killing" a slave, I doubt it would be legal, but it would seem a waste of money to do so. You wouldn't ride a horse until it died or destroy your car because it failed to start some morning. So killing a slave would be equally impractical. Discipline might be required of course but I'm sure that there would be recommended humane ways of administering such discipline.
Perhaps one of those collars that dog trainers use to train hunting dogs that give varying degrees of electric shocks?
You could still be reasonable with your slave in most cases. But you could push his limits well beyond what a voluntary carrier might endure until his endurance increased to the point that he could carry you as far and as long as you want in any manner you want for as long as you own him.
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servusmulierum: I was trying to keep the subject as amoral as possible out of curiosity concerning what people would choose if moral and ethical issues were taken out of the equation.
Race would have no barring and as such, neither would racism which it's is a subject I care little about.
As for practicality, using a slave to pull a rickshaw or some such conveyance ,this would be the most obviously practical use for a slave supplying transportation.
However, human powered transport is not the subject or interest of those on this forum. The interest is in sitting astride and riding upon another shoulders or being ridden in this manner. Since this is not specifically about black slavery ,male or female dominance or age dominance, it can be assumed that both masters and slaves would be of all races, both genders and any sexual persuasion.
For example, a black gay male could choose to purchase and ride a heterosexual Caucasian male or female if that was his choice.
Clearly the choice of the slave wouldn't be a factor but the choice of the purchaser/rider would obviously be. A male might well choose a female carrier or a female use a male or female carrier, limited only by the affordability of the available slaves.
I might for example choose a younger male who can grow into the task and gain physical strength and stamina as I grow older and potentially heavier. I might even choose a gay male who would have no sexual interest in women, though I find this unlikely, or even a eunuch if such were available simply to avoid complications.
Given these parameters, my question to you would be "what would you be looking for if you were buying a slave to carry you on his or her shoulders"?
Or, if you would prefer (like Trigger) what type would you choose to carry on your shoulders?
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Thanks for your question, Audrey !
First of all, if slavery was legal again, I would want to be a slave, not a master .... So, as You said, "the choice of a slave wouldn't be a factor", but at least I may express what my préférences would be, being well aware that no one would care ...
As I am straight, I would prefer to be owned by a Mistress... As I have a strong pony fetish, I would want her to like shoulder riding, ans use me that way as often as possible. As I am aging, I believe my performance "under the saddle" would be lousy, and getting worse all the time ... ... Some harsh discipline would certainly improve my performance level, but I doubt it might ever level up with a normally demanding Mistress' expectations .... ...
I don't have any other preference as regards the Mistress who would own me ... She could be black or white, old or Young, pretty or not, heavy or light, nice or wicked, straight or gay, or bi, single or married, .... I would love and serve with devotion any kind of Mistress ..
But I know that I could be "purchased" by a male master, and it would be much more difficult to me ... But again, "the choice of a slave is not a factor ..." !!!!
When the times come, Audrey please buy me !! Even if I am not a great " SR pony" I have a lot of other qualifications which you might be interested in ...
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servusmulierum: As I said to Trigger, Though doing so would be counterintuitive, it would be possible for you to purchase a slave to ride and dominate you to your specifications. I imagine such an arrangement would be very much like hiring a dominatrix prostitute . Perhaps you would find such an arrangement artificial , but it would have it's advantages. You would at least not be subject to carrying a male since you seem to find that prospect unappealing.
To be fair in this inquirer , I did give some thought to the hypothetical prospect of taking a slave (you?) who is older, weaker or infirm. I would have no ethical objection to riding such a person who chose his position (not a legal slave) and I would still want full control as I believe that anything other than full control by the rider is artificial.
However, I'm simply not certain I would be comfortable sitting on the shoulders of an old legally owned slave who has no say in the matter and might die beneath me. I am normally quite dominant and considered demanding in my relationships. But the prospect of doing serious physical damage to someone who has not offended me is not really part of my nature. The "ride him until he drops and dies" scenario has an admittedly sadistic appeal in fantasy, but I'm not certain I could withhold empathy in regard to a human or even a more conventional beast of burden who had no choice in his fate.
In considering specifics, adding the prospect of someone choosing to become my legal property(you) who chooses the role of my beast of burden, I might be more inclined disregard compassion.
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Reading all this makes me think that someone somewhere ought to open a weekend holiday camp where slaves and masters/mistresses can get together and indulge their passions such as, in this case, riding and carrying each other.
The main point or attraction about shoulder riding is that a rider, for example, who is sat astride a human pony's shoulders can enjoy the rather rare experience of having direct physical and psychological control over another person.
Conversely, a human pony who has another person sat astride his or her shoulders can enjoy the same rather rare experience of being subjected to direct physical and psychological control by that person who is riding him or her. So a well-built muscular man who has a slim young woman sat astride his shoulders can find out what it feels like to be dominated and controlled by such a woman.
In a different way, an older woman who has a shoulder ride on a man can enjoy the experience of controlling him and dominating him in a way that ordinarily she would never be able to do. Having power and control over another person can be an aphrodisiac.
But in this odd world, there is no need to buy a slave (if it was possible and legal to buy one) because there are plenty of people who will willingly and happily be someone's slave and do anything that is commanded of them. To fulfil your desire, all you have to do is search for someone who is willing to be your slave. Incidentally, I own a guy in Italy who is my slave, or so he tells me, and he even sent me a certificate stating that he is my property. Maybe I should sell him?
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Well...Holiday Camp seems to be the Best Idea..
But Audrey...Apart from all this - Can you pls tell or have views like why so less number of females like riding ..
I haven't come across even 5 Females in whole India ..who would like to ride..or on social platform expressing their interests.
If you can tell being a female.
Thanks.
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I replied to Audrey , about two hours ago.... But my message doesn't appear ...... I'll wait a little more ???????
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Audreyb wrote:
servusmulierum: As I said to Trigger, Though doing so would be counterintuitive, it would be possible for you to purchase a slave to ride and dominate you to your specifications. I imagine such an arrangement would be very much like hiring a dominatrix prostitute . Perhaps you would find such an arrangement artificial , but it would have it's advantages. You would at least not be subject to carrying a male since you seem to find that prospect unappealing.
To be fair in this inquirer , I did give some thought to the hypothetical prospect of taking a slave (you?) who is older, weaker or infirm. I would have no ethical objection to riding such a person who chose his position (not a legal slave) and I would still want full control as I believe that anything other than full control by the rider is artificial.
However, I'm simply not certain I would be comfortable sitting on the shoulders of an old legally owned slave who has no say in the matter and might die beneath me. I am normally quite dominant and considered demanding in my relationships. But the prospect of doing serious physical damage to someone who has not offended me is not really part of my nature. The "ride him until he drops and dies" scenario has an admittedly sadistic appeal in fantasy, but I'm not certain I could withhold empathy in regard to a human or even a more conventional beast of burden who had no choice in his fate.
In considering specifics, adding the prospect of someone choosing to become my legal property(you) who chooses the role of my beast of burden, I might be more inclined disregard compassion.
Good morning, Ms Audrey,
Please accept my apologies for a late reply ... I sent a first mail a few days ago which mysteriously disappeared ...
I said that I was in total agreement with Your previous message, especially as regards the full control of the rider on his/Her mount, and also the lack of compassion you would feel for a voluntary slave ... Not that an unvoluntary slave should get any REAL compassion, but, well just a little more. Perhaps
And I love it when You suggest that I might be Your pony-slave, first with a questionmark, and then with no more questionmark ... As if, with every line You wrote, that lovely idea was gaining consistency .... Thank You, I am very grateful for that. I confirm in return my dear wish to be Your property ...
Now, as regards that other, "counterintuitive", suggestion of Yours, to buy a slave and make Her my riding Mistress ... At first I scratched my head, but, on a second thought, You're right, it has its advantages ! It's in fact very smart! Actually, I think it was not uncommon in societies where slavery was legal. ( BTW, is it Franklin or Jefferson, who lived, as husband and wife, with his black slave ???).
So, finally, when legal slavery is at last reestablished, if You wouldn't wish to buy me ... I could perhaps buy You ..!! In both options, as in a fairy tale, we shall live happy, and have many rides .....
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servusmulierum: Though the arrangement has little evidential support, it was Jefferson who allegedly lived with his slave as a pseudo wife while ambassador to France. There are many versions of what was involved in this alleged relationship and the story has as many detractors as supporters. Jefferson might have simply spared the woman in question from a less preferable fate since it is known that Jefferson's estate was mortgaged and he didn't really "own" the slaves working there as they were by law, part of the estate.
In that the question was hypothetical, I put myself in the position of slave owner rather than slave.
However, since I encounter more submissives and masochistic men than dominant, I can imagine being a slave purchased by a submissive male who might want me to dominate him including riding on his shoulders.
Obviously such an arrangement would be preferable even if I had no choice in the manner, duration or direction of such domination. In any event I would much prefer to sit upon my master than to be sat upon by him(or her?)
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checkmateguy: In that my question/scenario was hypothetical, based exclusively on the choices and opinions of the membership here, I prefer not to disagree with any expressed opinion and certainly not to defend the practicality involved.
Based on my experiences in general (since specifically shoulder riding is comparatively rare for me) I find the number of submissives usually outnumber willing dominants in both gay and heterosexual circles.
As such, if a holiday camp such as you described were to meet, I imagine that neither of us would have an opportunity to sit down without submissives vying to be beneath us, since I believe such a camp would attract the most extreme.
However, getting back to the original subject, the first advantage I considered in the legal slavery scenario would be the lack of choice for the slaves involved. My slave being put to the use of carrying me or whoever I wanted him to carry.
A willing masochist might serve in this capacity out of his free will ,but not without consideration.
A free masochist would still have to deal with the business of living, family responsibilities, jobs, commitments etc.
A slave would be there and ready on command and only your consideration would matter. You alone decide how long you ride and the manner you choose. The slave can't quit and seek a new master. He can't say he is too tired or sore from your previous ride. The use of crops and spurs would be your choice alone.
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Audreyb wrote:
checkmateguy: I was actually interested in your input especially, because it was partially your information concerning riding Korean salt workers that got me to think about this subject.
The reason I used the hypothetical issue of real slavery in a morally and legally accepted manner isn't because I couldn't find a willing man to carry me, but rather because I think it would be interesting to have such a person completely at my disposal without regard to his desires in any way.
I would of course choose a male slave as well for practical reasons since I wouldn't be using him exclusively to ride upon. His strength and efforts would be put to whatever task I required and carry me only when I chose but also for as long as I chose.
I fully appreciate your situation as well. Currently, you choose your carriers from among those who willingly carry you and willingly obey your orders.
I can only assume that you enjoy riding him for a longer period than he enjoys carrying you, just as I do. You are of course limited to your carriers endurance even if he is masochistic since you will probably want to ride him again in the future.
But if you had a young muscular slave, you could sit on him without regard to his desires, spur him on beyond his limits each time and ride him until he dropped beneath you as you said. You may of course put him to other tasks as you see fit since he would be your property just as a horse your car or your furniture might be.
As for "killing" a slave, I doubt it would be legal, but it would seem a waste of money to do so. You wouldn't ride a horse until it died or destroy your car because it failed to start some morning. So killing a slave would be equally impractical. Discipline might be required of course but I'm sure that there would be recommended humane ways of administering such discipline.
Perhaps one of those collars that dog trainers use to train hunting dogs that give varying degrees of electric shocks?
You could still be reasonable with your slave in most cases. But you could push his limits well beyond what a voluntary carrier might endure until his endurance increased to the point that he could carry you as far and as long as you want in any manner you want for as long as you own him.
Interesting topic...
If I were your slave Audreyb, I would like to carry you. And if you would not use me exclusively to ride upon. It would be not very enjoyable to be your slave... Why you do not buy other slave? I would be your pony and the other guy can make the other tasks. Just an idea.
About discipline... how would you punish your slave with one of those collars that dog trainers use to train hunting dogs giving them varying degrees of electric shocks?
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Dragon:
In a true case of legal slavery the desires of the slave would have no more baring on his/her master's choices than a vehicle would on the driver's choice of destinations. I imagine that in such a scenario the slave would be very much like livestock, put to whatever use at the owns will or whim. If I wanted him to scrub and polish floors, pull a rickshaw or sit upon his shoulders as transport or simple enjoyment, his desire or preference to scrub floor or to be sat on would be meaningless and he would have no say at all in regard to who he would be required to serve or carry. At that point he would not be a person but rather property.
The master's treatment of the slave would be based on the desires and opinions of the master though I would imagine that financial and practical factors would be involved in such decisions. The master would choose what the slave wore as clothing and his choice of diet etc. as well as medical care since a slave would be a financial investment for his owner. I would imagine excessive punishment, feeding the slave table scraps or working him until he dropped to decrease the slaves value if the master considered selling him to another master ,rather like one might trade in a vehicle for a newer model.
As for the shock collar, hunters and dog trainers use these devices to train dogs to perform as the trainer desires. The settings allow the trainer to give the dog a sufficient shock from a gentle reminder to serious discomfort or pain. It isn't to torture the animal but rather to teach obedience.
If, for example I were sitting on a slaves shoulders and he wasn't performing his task or carrying me to the potential I wanted, shock could be administered to increase his efforts. Additional disobedience would result in a higher setting until the slave obeyed all commands in anticipation of being shocked for disobedience.
It would be more humane than using a whip or riding crop and it would avoid the scaring that might decrease the slaves value.
As for a second slave to preform labors other than carrying his master, the slaves choices don't matter and of course the cost of a second slave plus feeding and housing a second slave might be prohibitive . I can't imagine having a slave that carried me exclusively when I could have him do all my housework, yard work and maintenance. I simply don't require being carried constantly. I would probably see riding him much as I would see riding a horse. More as an activity or recreation than exclusively transportation.
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Interesting,I would appear that there a still wide difference of thoughts as to the use of slaves,these seem to be based in turn
as to the location of the owner. As a furher starting Audrey,where are you located.
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Audreyb:
This is some pretty good food for thought, I also do not advocate for slavery but the concept of having a female slave who is required to sit on her master's shoulders is interesting. I suppose the hope would be that she enjoys her job and would be excited to please her master. In ancient times when royalty would keep beautiful women around for pleasure they would often be treated as royalty as well and eat the best food, have the best clothes etc. The terrible part is that they were held against their will and required to please whoever the royalty would ask of them. If I lived in such a palace back in those times I would treat them like they were queens and carry them around the palace and courtyards all day on my shoulders. I would encourage them to gain weight and eat as much as they want while providing them the best clothing, jewelry and living quarters. I wouldn't hold them against their will, I would tell them they are free to come and go as they please but if they are to live like that they must be comfortable with shoulder rides. I suppose at that point it's more like employment but the idea of being required to sit on their master's shoulders is interesting.
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Hi....
I absolutely second your thought ...same wish i have.
guero wrote:
Audreyb:
This is some pretty good food for thought, I also do not advocate for slavery but the concept of having a female slave who is required to sit on her master's shoulders is interesting. I suppose the hope would be that she enjoys her job and would be excited to please her master. In ancient times when royalty would keep beautiful women around for pleasure they would often be treated as royalty as well and eat the best food, have the best clothes etc. The terrible part is that they were held against their will and required to please whoever the royalty would ask of them. If I lived in such a palace back in those times I would treat them like they were queens and carry them around the palace and courtyards all day on my shoulders. I would encourage them to gain weight and eat as much as they want while providing them the best clothing, jewelry and living quarters. I wouldn't hold them against their will, I would tell them they are free to come and go as they please but if they are to live like that they must be comfortable with shoulder rides. I suppose at that point it's more like employment but the idea of being required to sit on their master's shoulders is interesting.
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Audrey -
Legal Slavery is not allowed...Obviously..
But yes..if you wish there are many including me..who can come as slave horses for you to ride on.
You just have to say Yes..
Thanks
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mastadon777:
I live in the U.S.A. in the Midwest. I imagine if I were to pursue shoulder riding as a regular activity I could acquire enough willing carriers to fulfill my needs in this pursuit. I have encountered many submissives and masochists who have literally begged to serve me (actually any woman) in almost any capacity one might think of. My dominant gay friends have had the same experience in this regard though only one is particularly interested in riding on shoulders.
I'm almost certain that if I decided to move in the circles where riding activities were more common, finding carriers wouldn't present much of a problem. To be honest, compared to some of the kinky things submissive/masochistic men have offered, sitting on a man's shoulders to be carried would seem almost mainstream.
The hypothetical question of legal slavery is really more about the thoughts of the riders rather than the carriers regardless of the carriers motives. Setting the ethics of such a situation aside for the purposes of this discussion, would the rider desire to purchase another human to serve him/her as a beast of burden, perhaps among other tasks you might put the slave to?
The desire and willingness of the slave having no baring on the situation. He/she would have no say-so in regard to his task exactly as a horse has no choice in who sits on him, when or for how long. I eliminated moral and ethical considerations because our society has instilled these factors in us today. If such slavery were commonplace, such considerations of ethics , morality and even empathy may be very different.
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Thank you Audreyb for sensible and reasoned reply to my ideas,it is interesting to hear the views of others,it what some moght call delicate matters
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Audreyb wrote:
Dragon:
In a true case of legal slavery the desires of the slave would have no more baring on his/her master's choices than a vehicle would on the driver's choice of destinations. I imagine that in such a scenario the slave would be very much like livestock, put to whatever use at the owns will or whim. If I wanted him to scrub and polish floors, pull a rickshaw or sit upon his shoulders as transport or simple enjoyment, his desire or preference to scrub floor or to be sat on would be meaningless and he would have no say at all in regard to who he would be required to serve or carry. At that point he would not be a person but rather property.
The master's treatment of the slave would be based on the desires and opinions of the master though I would imagine that financial and practical factors would be involved in such decisions. The master would choose what the slave wore as clothing and his choice of diet etc. as well as medical care since a slave would be a financial investment for his owner. I would imagine excessive punishment, feeding the slave table scraps or working him until he dropped to decrease the slaves value if the master considered selling him to another master ,rather like one might trade in a vehicle for a newer model.
As for the shock collar, hunters and dog trainers use these devices to train dogs to perform as the trainer desires. The settings allow the trainer to give the dog a sufficient shock from a gentle reminder to serious discomfort or pain. It isn't to torture the animal but rather to teach obedience.
If, for example I were sitting on a slaves shoulders and he wasn't performing his task or carrying me to the potential I wanted, shock could be administered to increase his efforts. Additional disobedience would result in a higher setting until the slave obeyed all commands in anticipation of being shocked for disobedience.
It would be more humane than using a whip or riding crop and it would avoid the scaring that might decrease the slaves value.
As for a second slave to preform labors other than carrying his master, the slaves choices don't matter and of course the cost of a second slave plus feeding and housing a second slave might be prohibitive . I can't imagine having a slave that carried me exclusively when I could have him do all my housework, yard work and maintenance. I simply don't require being carried constantly. I would probably see riding him much as I would see riding a horse. More as an activity or recreation than exclusively transportation.
Thanks for your answer Miss Audreyb
I understand your comments.
When I said that if I were your slave, Audreyb, I would like to carry you. And if you would not use me exclusively to ride. It would be not very enjoyable to be your slave. I were not saying I would not want to be your slave or that you do not deserve to be a Mistress, or that I would not obey your commands. If we live in a true case of legal slavery and I were your slave, Audreyb, I would obey all your commands and whims. I just said that I would prefer to carry you (because this topic is about shoulder riding), but I would make whatever task you wanted.
When I said I would prefer to carry my Mistress. I just was trying to say, well, I do not know if it would be a good idea to buy a racing horse to pull a plow. I know it is the Mistress choice, but I do not know if this would be a good idea.
About the shock collar. I understand a little more now.
If you were riding on a slaves shoulders, you said you only would shock him to increase his efforts. Not to torture him.
You said this would be more humane than using a whip. I guess you are right Ms Audreyb. I think I would prefer an electric shock than being whipped. You probably would be a compassinate Mistress, but again in a true legal slavery case, it would be your choice.
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guero wrote:
Audreyb:
This is some pretty good food for thought, I also do not advocate for slavery but the concept of having a female slave who is required to sit on her master's shoulders is interesting. I suppose the hope would be that she enjoys her job and would be excited to please her master. In ancient times when royalty would keep beautiful women around for pleasure they would often be treated as royalty as well and eat the best food, have the best clothes etc. The terrible part is that they were held against their will and required to please whoever the royalty would ask of them. If I lived in such a palace back in those times I would treat them like they were queens and carry them around the palace and courtyards all day on my shoulders. I would encourage them to gain weight and eat as much as they want while providing them the best clothing, jewelry and living quarters. I wouldn't hold them against their will, I would tell them they are free to come and go as they please but if they are to live like that they must be comfortable with shoulder rides. I suppose at that point it's more like employment but the idea of being required to sit on their master's shoulders is interesting.
I agree with you that the concept of having a female slave who is required to sit on her master's shoulders is interesting.
And yes, in the ancient age, royalty would keep beautiful women around for pleasure they would often be treated as royalty.
I heard that in the ancient chinese empire, the Emperor had his own city, the forbidden kingdoom and he had more than 1000 beautiful young ladies. These ladies were his wives and they were viewed and treat them in the same way that the royalty. Because the Emperor was a god for his people.
Now that I think about it, a petite, beautifu,l young chinese lady would be easy to carry. But I would carry a white girl, a black girl, a latin girl, or any other.
However, slavery must be a sad way of life...
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trigger wrote:
Audrey -
Ya ur right in this case..I can buy a slave girl and let her ride me...
But its still happening , not in a legal sense, but yes informally.
If you take my case - I have got 100 percent Paid Rides -
- I pay the girl to ride me, she does it like what i want, even i choose with my preference, like sometime I go to heavy girls / Light / young /Old..etc etc..even 2 girls at a time
Though I am out of pocket and hardly have any savings, but yes I have fulfilled my desires.
Just sharing my views.
Thanks.
Two girls at the same time? That must be a good story. And you must be strong Mr Trigger.
Once I saw a wrestler made push ups with two girls sitting on his back.
What were the weight of those girl you carried?
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Hi.
Two girls I have carried many times but on donkey back rides.
In pony rides also. But it's very very difficult to move carrying 2 girls.
Even the girls wanted that one will sit on my shoulder. And other girl I have to carry in my arms. Cradle carry
But that failed.
It was all paid man.
Emptying your pockets basically.
Dragon wrote:
trigger wrote:
Audrey -
Ya ur right in this case..I can buy a slave girl and let her ride me...
But its still happening , not in a legal sense, but yes informally.
If you take my case - I have got 100 percent Paid Rides -
- I pay the girl to ride me, she does it like what i want, even i choose with my preference, like sometime I go to heavy girls / Light / young /Old..etc etc..even 2 girls at a time
Though I am out of pocket and hardly have any savings, but yes I have fulfilled my desires.
Just sharing my views.
Thanks.Two girls at the same time? That must be a good story. And you must be strong Mr Trigger.
Once I saw a wrestler made push ups with two girls sitting on his back.
What were the weight of those girl you carried?
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Audreyb
as far as your original question is concerned, i would choose a way, when i am her slavehorse with unlimited use and control, regardless of my will, exposed to her dominant riding desires. Actually this sounds like dream for me.
But because we live on this planet and in this world, i would choose this life for a limited and agreed period of time, after which i could return to my work and "normal" life. (although still having the option to expand the contract time frame)
I believe, this way everybody would be happy, and we still could maintain reality.
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trigger wrote:
Hi.
Two girls I have carried many times but on donkey back rides.
In pony rides also. But it's very very difficult to move carrying 2 girls.
Even the girls wanted that one will sit on my shoulder. And other girl I have to carry in my arms. Cradle carry
But that failed.
It was all paid man.
Emptying your pockets basically.Dragon wrote:
trigger wrote:
Audrey -
Ya ur right in this case..I can buy a slave girl and let her ride me...
But its still happening , not in a legal sense, but yes informally.
If you take my case - I have got 100 percent Paid Rides -
- I pay the girl to ride me, she does it like what i want, even i choose with my preference, like sometime I go to heavy girls / Light / young /Old..etc etc..even 2 girls at a time
Though I am out of pocket and hardly have any savings, but yes I have fulfilled my desires.
Just sharing my views.
Thanks.Two girls at the same time? That must be a good story. And you must be strong Mr Trigger.
Once I saw a wrestler made push ups with two girls sitting on his back.
What were the weight of those girl you carried?
I understand Mister Trigger.
If the girls wanted that you carry them one sitting on your shoulders. And the other girl carried in your arms (Cradle carry). It sounds like an interesting experience. Why the girls wanted you to carry them like that? They must be dominant.
Once I made push ups with a girl sitting on my back. She was the girlfriend of a friend. It was a little difficult but it was fun.
Thanks.
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Audreyb wrote:
Let me start by saying I'm not in any way advocating slavery or legalizing such an institution.
The overall moral and ethical aspects should be eliminated for the purpose of this question which is hypothetical.
The question is for riders and carriers .
1, In a society where it was legal and common to purchase a human slave, would you consider doing so specifically for the purpose of riding on
his/her shoulders or , carrying him/her if you are a carrier?
2,If you purchased this slave for other reasons, would you occasionally put him/her to use as a carrier or a rider?
3, what age, size, race and gender of slave would you choose to purchase for this task?
4, do you think it would be relatively common to see the slaves used for this task publically if slavery was an acceptable and legal practice?
I followed the whole interesting discussion.
I only can agree with AudreyB.
If there would exist legal slavery it would be quite normal having slaves and using them as slaves.
And suitable slaves would of course be used as human ponies as well as beasts of burden.
In the colonies it was quite normal using people for riding or transport.
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The question is for riders and riddens.
1. In a society where it is legal and common to contract services at the will of the employer. Would you consider doing it specifically for the purpose of riding your subordinate on his / her shoulders; or, if you are a ridden, being ridden by he / she?
I would consider signing this contract with a beautiful female employer; she would ride me when, how and where she wanted; but this contract has its risk: being subject to her will, she can command me to be ridden by other people (even people who are not to my liking, like her husband).
Also, I would love to hire women to ride me.
2. If you hired this subordinate for other reasons. Would you occasionally use him / her as a ridden or rider?
If my female subordinate is beautiful, and my female rider subordinate is unavailable, I would beg her to ride me and she would ride me.
3. What age, size, ethnicity, and gender of subordinate would you choose to hire for this task?
Only people of legal age or financially independent can enter into contracts.
Adult size, from 5 feet (150 cm) to taller.
Ethnic group? I do not make distinctions, although I would prefer women from Southeast Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, etc.) because they are beautiful, slim and light weight women, they could ride me greater distances and longer.
Female Gender, of course!
4. Do you think it would be relatively common to see subordinates used for this task publicly if that type of contract is legal and acceptable practice?
Yes, it would be exciting to see women riding men in the street and other public places.
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The responses have all been interesting from various points of view.
Setting aside the moral/ethical aspect of human slavery as well as the practicality in many cases is difficult for many people who were not raised in places where slavery was an accepted practice and of course I was not.
Still I wonder if enslaving humans, much as we currently enslave other animals was considered completely acceptable, we might see it differently?
Staying more on the topic, I might also question another aspect that was brought up, that being the use of such slaves as beasts of burden,used for transporting free people in rickshaws for longer distances, or even riding on the slaves shoulders for shorter trips or entertainment.
I can imagine that in some cases , in polite society , riding a slaves shoulders could be initially seen as improper, just as ladies riding astride rather than sidesaddle on horses was seen as improper.
However, as more women chose to ride astride, the practice became acceptable and common.
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Thanks a lot.
Contracts are voluntary consents for a certain period of time, from the age of majority to the retirement age. (18-70, 18-65, 18-60 or earlier like footballers who retire before 40).
In our streets it is not common to see women riding on the shoulders of men, but if more women did it, it would not seem strange to us.
In Asia there are people who pull rickshaw to transport other people, in other continents this practice is strange.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-hand-pulled-ricks … 76947149.html
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Audreyb wrote:
The responses have all been interesting from various points of view.
Setting aside the moral/ethical aspect of human slavery as well as the practicality in many cases is difficult for many people who were not raised in places where slavery was an accepted practice and of course I was not.
Still I wonder if enslaving humans, much as we currently enslave other animals was considered completely acceptable, we might see it differently?
Staying more on the topic, I might also question another aspect that was brought up, that being the use of such slaves as beasts of burden,used for transporting free people in rickshaws for longer distances, or even riding on the slaves shoulders for shorter trips or entertainment.
I can imagine that in some cases , in polite society , riding a slaves shoulders could be initially seen as improper, just as ladies riding astride rather than sidesaddle on horses was seen as improper.
However, as more women chose to ride astride, the practice became acceptable and common.
Indeed dear Audrey you are right.
I remember in the stables I was at first it was quite strange when the first time a lady sat on my neck and shoulders.
But most of the ladies and girls welcomed this new spectacle and were admiring that lady wo sat on me for her idea.
It was a quite tough and even beautiful lady who was quite strict and self-confident.
She knew what she wanted and she knew how she could get what she wanted.
I think quite a majority of the members of the stable agreed with my rider.
And just after a very short time more and more ladies and girls were even insisting on this kind of service.
Asking me if they were too heavy was mostly an exception and did not change the mind of my female riders.
I just was useful for them and so they did it.
I think women are endowed with practical skills and use a situation with less scruples as males.
I wonder still today after that long time how quickly that society of stable-members got used to this new situation.
And I found out that as more often I got ridden, the more it became just a matter of course.
Sitting astride on my neck and shoulders while I had to clean their boots, was a pleasant service to them
None of them ever took much care about me.
And being more and more stronger by frequent use none of them did waste even one thought about my situation under their butts and crotches.
It was their right riding me and I had to work for them and to obey.
After some time it was quite usual that they rode me for longer distances.
First it was a kick for some of them but later it was quite a common affair.
Women are endowed with practical skills. and none of the girls or ladies had any scruples.
Being useful they just used me like a beast of burden.
I think in social life people would accept slavery very quickly as soon as they would see an advantage.
A wide majority would get used to such a new social institution in a very short time.
Women and girls riding in the streets would be very quickly quite common.
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frederik:
I think that it's quite normal for women to be envious of a woman who is receiving special service from a man and one who is bold enough to take the initiative in instigating such service.
Of course any number of women might imply disapproval of the actions that lady took, but most often that is because of societal restrictions.
Personally, I tend to enjoy taking the upper hand with men and often seeing other ladies doing so, and I believe I'm in the majority.
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Audreyb wrote:
frederik:
I think that it's quite normal for women to be envious of a woman who is receiving special service from a man and one who is bold enough to take the initiative in instigating such service.
Of course any number of women might imply disapproval of the actions that lady took, but most often that is because of societal restrictions.
Personally, I tend to enjoy taking the upper hand with men and often seeing other ladies doing so, and I believe I'm in the majority.
Of course there was at the beginning some jealousy among the ladies and the girls stayed in competition to each other by copying the elder ladies.
But coming back the point.
I read a lot of literature about slavery in America.
A wide majority of ladies did not have any problems and were regarding slavery as a quite common social institution.
I think this reaction is quite normal as well ist regarded in some asian countries using rickshaws.
In china you even can rent for little money in some areas sedan-chairs with two bearers who bring you up to the top of the mountains.
After my opinion a quite good idea.
As a sedan-chair bearer you do not need much intelligence or skills and you can earn money anyway.
As my mother has been to China she was using as often as possible a sedan-chair and she was really fond of this kind of service, although she was a quite tall and sturdy lady. Even my elder sister was using this service.
There would be much more jobs for people without any skills and less intelligence.
And that all people are equal may be in a certain sense regarding to their basic existence but in reality we see every day that there are wide differences between the people.
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frederik:
To start with, in spite of what you might have read, slaves in the U.S. were not used as transportation and I might add, the U.S. had a comparatively brief period in which slavery was legally practiced in southern states in the U.S. and far shorter a period than in most European, Asian and African countries .
Also, nearly every race of people at some point in time were enslaved to another group of people.
As for people employed to carry other people in sedan chair etc, I not only see this as a good use for otherwise useless people. but in one instance several years ago, I was very tempted to employ a local peasant to carry me on a walking tour of ancient ruins.
Another tourist actually broached the subject initially.
The tourist was heavy and obviously out of shape and suggested that since some of the peasants were used to heavy work and extremely poor, he might hire one to carry him on his shoulders either on the tour or at least back to the bus that brought us from the hotel.
My feet were killing me and the shoes I chose that day almost certainly cost more than these peasants earned in 6 months. I didn't even care that my choice of wearing a skirt might be a little embarrassing while sitting on a potential hireling's shoulders.
I didn't expect the walking portion of the tour and my feet were in such pain I was beyond caring .
Unfortunately, I wasn't fluent in the local language and I endured without attempting to make such an arrangement . Needless to say, my expensive shoes were ruined and my feet suffered greatly.
If given the same situation today, I would hire a carrier without any concern about embarrassment , or what the other tourists or local thought about it.
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Slavery began as a result of wars in civilizations such as Egyptian, Greek and Roman: Caucasian ethnic groups enslaving other Caucasian ethnic groups.
On the African continent, African ethnic groups enslaved other African ethnic groups due to wars, the victorious ethnic group enslaved the defeated ethnic group.
Who sold African slaves to slave traders? The same Africans.
Humans do not have racial differences, because we are of diverse ethnic groups. Dogs and other animals are classified into breeds or races; we cannot be divided into races, because all humans are equal.
An example, an African woman might ride an European man on.
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Audreyb wrote:
frederik:
To start with, in spite of what you might have read, slaves in the U.S. were not used as transportation and I might add, the U.S. had a comparatively brief period in which slavery was legally practiced in southern states in the U.S. and far shorter a period than in most European, Asian and African countries .
Also, nearly every race of people at some point in time were enslaved to another group of people.
As for people employed to carry other people in sedan chair etc, I not only see this as a good use for otherwise useless people. but in one instance several years ago, I was very tempted to employ a local peasant to carry me on a walking tour of ancient ruins.
Another tourist actually broached the subject initially.
The tourist was heavy and obviously out of shape and suggested that since some of the peasants were used to heavy work and extremely poor, he might hire one to carry him on his shoulders either on the tour or at least back to the bus that brought us from the hotel.
My feet were killing me and the shoes I chose that day almost certainly cost more than these peasants earned in 6 months. I didn't even care that my choice of wearing a skirt might be a little embarrassing while sitting on a potential hireling's shoulders.
I didn't expect the walking portion of the tour and my feet were in such pain I was beyond caring .
Unfortunately, I wasn't fluent in the local language and I endured without attempting to make such an arrangement . Needless to say, my expensive shoes were ruined and my feet suffered greatly.
If given the same situation today, I would hire a carrier without any concern about embarrassment , or what the other tourists or local thought about it.
Dear AudreyB
I completely agree with your opinion.
Slavery in the US has been a very short time and most of the slaves have been treated much better as at home.
And I think as far as I know that slavery in Soth America has been has been better than a life as slave. in Africa.
Slaveholders were no idiots risking the lives of their slaves.
As my beautiful mother told me, she was a tall and quite sturdy blond adorable and and beautiful lady, during her various trips to China with her girl-fidends and my elder sister they deeply enjoyded their trips over there and all these ladies were deeply fond of the use of sedan-chairs.
May mother as well as my sister confirmed to me that its was for them a quite extreme erotic pleasure getting carried up to the long way to the beautiful mountains.
For my mother, my sister and the girl-friends of my my mother this experience seemed to be extremely erotic.
I do not understand where your experience did happen.
Asa your guy I had quite a lot of beautiful girl-fiends who were in riding
All of them without hesitation preferred a carrier whenever they had the opportunity.
I still remember as one of my girl-friends, she was quite tall and about 67 kgs was choosing without any scruples a young guy who was much smaller as her and quite younger for a long day trip for riding.
A very beautiful English girl and her smart mother were choosing the next day such a boy as well for riding.
I guess the Boyds were not older as 15 years.
It was in Tunesia and the owners of these guys were two very smart and friendly young and beautiful Tunisian girls .
I for myself preferred to walk on may own legs .
Interesting was that there were so many British girls and ladies there.
A few dutch and Belgian girls and ladies and I as a man was in a clear minority.
Even ladies in their cities or sixties were tiding.
It was strange to me.
.
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AudreyB
I just was discussing with the ladies and girls in my riding club your topic.
To my big surprise about 70 % of the ladies and girls spontaneously answered that they could easily imagine using a slave for riding.
Only the rest of the mostly female club was against such an option.
Also a wide majority liked the fiction being able to buy a slave as their real property.
None of those ladies or girls had the slightest concern.
And all of them would use their slaves just as it comes ups to their mind.
And I want to underline that most of those ladies and girls in the club are well educated and modern upper-class members.
Widely they could imagine with real pleasure buying a young slave for any kind of purpose.(Riding included of course)
They told me that they would never have the slightest remorses by owning real slaves.
So you are quite right with your opinion and attitude.
I was also telling your story as tourist where could hire a carrier.
None of the ladies and girls could understand that you ruin ed your feet and shoes just for nothing although you could hire for cheap money a local carrier.
My stepmother and my two stepsisters just were shaking their heads when I told them your story.
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frederik:
I can't disagree with the ladies you mentioned in regard to me not hiring a peasant to carry me. Judging from the poverty level in the area I could have likely hired one of them for $25 which was more than a month of their average income and save both my feet and those $600 Italian shoes. Many of the peasants I saw were young men who were used to hard work and had broad shoulders that I could easily sat on very comfortably. I might have even finished the walking tour on him and still been carried back to the tour bus.
Given the situation as it was,even my choice of wearing a skirt shouldn't have been a deterrent because I rarely care what strangers think and it would be difficult for anyone to peek up my skirt while I was on the guy's shoulders.
In my defense, I didn't know the language well enough to make such an arrangement and as I said, the idea wasn't originally mine.
An overweight man suggested the idea for himself and I simply overheard him. He would have certainly been bigger burden on a peasant than I would have been. I can't really say whether he made such a deal because I lost sight of him and wasn't paying attention as the pain in my feet had my full attention.
I'm not poor but those $600 shoes were much more than I would normally allow myself. They were a splurge and I wish I had chosen other shoes that day.
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Audreyb,
Looking back at this situation now, had you decided to hire and broker a deal for a carrier for $25, how would you have guided him to where you wanted to go or things you wanted to see or even when to stop if language would have been a barrier?
What was the terrain like on this walking tour? Would (in your opinion) have made your hired servant tired?
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@Frederik
That 70% of your sampled Ladies approve of slavery for their riding pleasure is not a surprise to me ! I guess this percentage would have ben even higher if you had suggested house-slavery on top of "riding-slavery". In that case the "slave" would provide two major benefits : He'd be USEFUL (House-slave) and also PLEASURABLE ( Riding-slave). Getting rid of all unpleasant chores while accessing larger pleasure opportunities is a normal desire for most human beings, (perhaps even more for female human beings ) and, unless you are a happy billionaire, the best if not the only way to enjoy these is to have one or several slaves.
Is it immoral ? For a lot of people happiness is also possible in slavery. For a lot of people, being the slave of an american/european family would mean being better fed and cared with a resulting better health and a significantly longer life expectancy. What was abominable in slavery was the slave-trade, the lifelong slavery status, its hereditary character, and the TOTAL denial of any and all civil rights ...
I'm sure "your" Ladies would agree to "rent" contracted slaves for five-year renewable periods, which could be granted a minimal amount of minimal rights, as opposed to the huge amount of their mandatory duties ... And being ridden would probably not be the worst ...
Esel
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esel wrote:
@Frederik
That 70% of your sampled Ladies approve of slavery for their riding pleasure is not a surprise to me ! I guess this percentage would have ben even higher if you had suggested house-slavery on top of "riding-slavery". In that case the "slave" would provide two major benefits : He'd be USEFUL (House-slave) and also PLEASURABLE ( Riding-slave). Getting rid of all unpleasant chores while accessing larger pleasure opportunities is a normal desire for most human beings, (perhaps even more for female human beings ) and, unless you are a happy billionaire, the best if not the only way to enjoy these is to have one or several slaves.
Is it immoral ? For a lot of people happiness is also possible in slavery. For a lot of people, being the slave of an american/european family would mean being better fed and cared with a resulting better health and a significantly longer life expectancy. What was abominable in slavery was the slave-trade, the lifelong slavery status, its hereditary character, and the TOTAL denial of any and all civil rights ...
I'm sure "your" Ladies would agree to "rent" contracted slaves for five-year renewable periods, which could be granted a minimal amount of minimal rights, as opposed to the huge amount of their mandatory duties ... And being ridden would probably not be the worst ...
Esel
I. don't think that my little poll in the riding club can be representative.
The ladies of the club are well educated and wealthy ladies and girls from the upper class.
I hardly can imagine that a girl sitting at the cash of a super market would give the same answers.
The average women do have a quite different outlook on life.
But I fully agree with you that most slaves would have a better life.
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In the ancient Roman Empire, there was slavery. But I heard in somewhere that sometimes a free man could get a job as a slave for a master. If that man needed to pay the master for anything and he had not money, he could pay him working for him. Like some kind of deal.
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Hombre! pero que dificil es el idioma ingles!
Man! what a difficult language the english is!
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JayRey8585:
Since it was a tour with a guide, directing as carrier to follow would have been easy enough and simply pointing and nudges with my heels would probably been enough.
It was the negotiations that I would have had trouble with.
I was weak in the language and I didn't know how to say I wanted to sit on him and be carried. I wouldn't be embarrass riding him but I didn't want to mess up in telling him what I wanted to sit on. That could be a problem.
the terrain was a little rocky but not especially hilly and I think I might have normally enjoyed sitting on the shoulders of several of the young peasants I saw if my feet were not killing me and I wasn't upset about my shoes.
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Audreyb,
Would the peasant have been tired from the tour terrain? If it was a guided tour, would you have given him breaks as you felt or when the group stopped?
I wonder what others would have thought seeing you hire a young local to carry you on the tour? How would you have responded to other women on the tour if they thought you should be walking and not riding on a local?
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JayRey8585:
As I said earlier, I'm not very concerned about what others think and even less about people I may never see again.
Besides, I know that some of the women would be envious and just not bold enough to do the same.
I saw these peasants carrying very heavy loads to the local market,sometimes on their heads.
If I felt the carrier need as break and wasn't just slacking, I would of course let him rest.
But being short myself,I might choose to sit up there so I could see over the crowd and since my feet were hurting,and there were not many places to sit, I would probably choose to remain where I was.
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