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#1 2016-06-14 20:46:32

brad's shoulders
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Male (38), United States
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Submissive or feisty carrier?

Question for all the riders out there: do you prefer a carrier who is immediately submissive and compliant to all your commands, or you'd rather ride a slightly wilder mount who needs some "breaking" before fully submitting to you?

As a carrier, I tend to be chivalrous and 100% compliant with any female rider, especially if she is lighter than me (which is usually the case, since I am 185 lbs). But I will pretend to be a little restless at first beneath a male rider, to see if he is dominant enough to take charge of me and make me submit to him.

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#2 2016-06-15 01:12:32

frenk5080
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

For me the fun of riding is enhanced if I have to make the carriers (always males in my case) submissive so I can exercise my power over them. In my opinion the rider should be the boss. That position is emphasized when the carrier plays his part in this game.

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#3 2016-06-15 06:06:57

Audreyb
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

I like  Frenk's  reply and attitude. I believe  the rider should be in control  simply because it   seems  right and natural. When I  sit on  a  horse or  in a  car, I direct  them to take me  where I choose to  go. I don't  let them  just take me where they happen  to choose  to  wander.  The rider should be the  master and the  carrier  the servant for at least as long as the ride  lasts,  assuming it's something  they are  participating in  and not some kind of necessary need to  transport someone.

However I  am  amused  by the concept of a rider mounting and breaking an  unwilling  carrier.
Climbing  aboard to  sit on his  neck or shoulders and remaining there until  he is  broken  and submits  as one would do  with a  wild horse  is an entertaining  and  amusing  thought. But  I  can't imagine how this could be done. It would appear  rather easy for the carrier to unseat the rider who would be  perched on a  rather  precarious seat. The balance of this  position would  appear to  favor  the carrier winning  such a  struggle.  But still,  I think I  would love to  watch such a  contest.

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#4 2016-06-15 14:45:22

frenk5080
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

Your right about the advantage the carrier has over his rider, unseating him would be very easy. But I wasn't thinking about making him submissive like one could do with a wild horse, but getting him to do what you want him to do by means of vocal instructions, threats or mild physical stimulation.
It gives me pleasure if the carrier is reluctant to go any further if he's getting tired, yet I can make him do it anyway. The thought of enjoying myself at his expense, me sitting comfortably whilst he has to work hard accommodate his rider excites me.

What interests me is why exactly brad's shoulders treats his female and male riders differently in this respect. I can see why a man doesn't want to submit himself to another man without a "fight", but maybe his female riders would like to have the same experience of getting him in line? Perhaps he can elaborate on this a little bit more?

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#5 2016-06-15 15:24:52

brad's shoulders
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

@Audrey - As a "slightly unwilling" horse I would not actually try to unseat my rider. I would just be a little restless, for example trying to push my head up to limit the strain of my neck, or hesitating in my response to some commands. My hope and expectation would be for the rider to treat me harshly until I give in, recognizing her/his absolute power over me and starting to behave like a perfect servant. At that point I would bend my neck forward as much as possible, irrespective of my discomfort, to make a comfortable saddle for her/him. I would place my hands around her/his feet to simulate stirrups and enhance the rider's comfort, if needed. And I would obey promptly to any commands, whether subtle or harsh, providing my best effort for her/his maximum comfort and pleasure.

@Frenk - I would definitely behave as a "slightly unwilling" horse with a woman as well, if she wanted to experience that. And I would definitely enjoy it! What I meant in my previous post is that my preference is to be ridden by women, so I am usually willing to fully submit to a female rider right away, but I would prefer a male rider to feel my initial resistance and then force me to submit.

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#6 2016-06-27 23:23:10

movieyou2003
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

@brad
Do you mind if I squeeze your neck if I ever get to "break you"?

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#7 2016-07-01 17:44:11

Audreyb
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

frenk5080:

Since the relationship  with the rider and carrier can be quite  unique to  them  alone, I  would  hesitate to imply a  one size  fits all  rule on the subject.

However I completely agree that the rider should always  be  in charge  for the experience to be fully realized, I believe that pushing the  limits of  a  reluctant mount  is well within  the  parameters of reasonable expectations.    You are the one  sitting on him  after all and  that  alone implies  control  and  dominance.  Your  comfort  and enjoyment  shouldn't be limited  by the  desires or  stress of  the  man carrying  you.  I'm not suggesting a  "ride him  until he drops" scenario unless  of course that is  the  nature of your relationship, but  you  should expect  him  to  comply with  your  directions, the duration of the ride  and to position  himself  so that you can  sit  comfortably on him even if  it's uncomfortable for  him  to  carry  you sitting on him  that way.
I prefer to have  my bottom  supported  by the  carrier's back and shoulders   and  not  have my bottom  hanging off while with  my crotch  pressed against his  erect   neck. Others  may  prefer  other positions they  find  more comfortable.  But  it  really should be  the  riders  preference.

I might suggest that even  rest periods and the conditions of those rest periods should  be determined  by  the rider.    My  male  friend  who took me  on  the  outings and supplies  my  carrier  and who also  inspired  my interest in this activity,  expressed very  similar  views  to  yours   and demonstrated  his  proclivity as  well.   He  spurred (figuratively) his  carrier on until  he thought that  resting his  mount was  appropriate   and sat on his mount's shoulder (one shoulder) with the  mount sitting on ground  while  he waited  until  he decided  the man  had rested enough  to  continue.
I  rested my  carrier while using a log  for  a  seat  that first time,  but  followed  my friends  lead when my carrier continued to be  resentful of  his  position. I admit  this was partially because I didn't want to get  my bottom  dirty  and there were  no  clean  logs near  by, but it also served  to imply  our  relative stations in  the affair.

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#8 2016-07-03 22:56:01

checkmateguy
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

My opinion is different from those opinions already given by other members. I like both an obedient human pony to ride and I also like a  slightly disobedient one too and the latter kind of pony is often disobedient on purpose, the reason being that the pony wants to be ridden more harshly and enjoys being disciplined by the rider.

I find it is fun to ride around on the shoulders of a willing and compliant pony. It is also fun, albeit a different kind of fun, to ride around on the shoulders of a pony in a 'hard-ride' way because the pony wants to be 'hard-rode' by a dominant rider. I think I might have mentioned in the past that some human ponies like the excitement of being rode by a dominant and demanding rider and I, for example, will make (or train) this sort of pony to do a series of things to show me that he can and will do what I, as his rider, want and require him to do. I refer to such a pony as a 'he' because it is invariably male ponies which like to be 'hard-rode.'

These things can be quite simple training techniques. A pony whether a four-legged one or a two-legged human one has to obey the rider. The first very elementary requirement for a pony is to bend down and push his head between the rider's thighs and lift the rider up onto his shoulders. So I will stand there, feet apart, and get my human pony to push his head between my thighs and lift me up. Essentially, the pony becomes a human crane lifting a load up on the back of his neck then using his back and legs together to lift the rider fully up onto his shoulders. But when I'm training a pony to do this and he needs corrective disciplinary training, after he has lifted me I order him to immediately lower me in the same way and as soon as my feet touch the ground, I order him to lift me again. After he has lifted and lowered me several times - maybe six, seven or eight times - he is quite exhausted but he is learning to obey me, his rider.   

When I'm shoulder-riding a human pony that needs/likes disciplinary/corrective training, I use thigh-nudges and toes/heel digs to make him change direction or speed. These commands are done quickly and abruptly in order to dominate the pony and get him to respond to me, his rider, instantly with penalties for slow or poor performances. A favourite penalty I use is to make the pony stand still while I sit there astride his shoulders with my crotch pressed fully up to the back of his neck so that his head is forced down and make him feel the pain and my weight with my legs hanging loose and make him stand like that for five or even ten minutes. It might sound harsh but some ponies need this sort of disciplinary training. After a period of training like this for a few weeks or months which includes harsh and dominant riding, the result is a fully trained and more importantly a fully compliant human pony who will readily lift the rider up onto his shoulders and give the rider a long and satisfying ride. That is what a human pony should do and that is what a human pony is for.

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#9 2016-07-05 17:07:55

brad's shoulders
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

@movieyou2003 - Yes, I would definitely let my rider's legs squeeze my neck. It is her/his prerogative to choose how to break and ride me.

@audreyb - A carrier's neck makes an excellent saddle when bent forward, and every rider should demand it. One of my riders once pushed my head down so much that my chin was pressed into my chest. He said the ride was extremely comfortable, and my soreness was completely irrelevant. During breaks, I have found that the best way to provide a comfortable and clean seat for my rider is for me to get on all fours. This way my shoulders and neck can rest and soon be ready for more shoulder riding, while my back/wrists/knees take their turn being used for the comfort of my rider.

@checkmateguy - You are absolutely right! The reason why a carrier might be feisty is that he needs to be dominated and broken. I think any rider would love nothing more than to enjoy a strong, submissive and compliant pony who is the result of the training and even punishments he/she has inflicted on him. What would you do if the pony refused to keep lifting you up and down? And what other "penalties" do you use during training? Last but not least: once the pony is fully trained and compliant, would you still ride him harshly just for your enjoyment?

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#10 2016-07-06 10:46:21

servusmulierum
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Male (63), FRANCE
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

Brad's shoulders ..

I totally agree with you : A demanding rider should demand his mount to bent his head forward, in order to improve his riding comfort!

Now as regards the best way to provide a comfortable sitting to the rider during breaks, I believe that it might be best when the carrier lies down on his back with raised knees : The rider then sits on his belly and leans back on his thighs which should thus be at a 45° angle, more or less, according to the rider's wishes ... THe carrier in this position may also better relax his sore neck, while also providing some foot-worship service if required by the rider ...

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#11 2016-07-06 16:54:07

Audreyb
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

While I  don't  require  foot  worship during rest periods , I imagine that  such things  would depend on  the relationship of the  rider  and carrier and  the  services that  are expected. 
I can certainly see  Checkmate  guy's point of  view in requiring a less  cooperative carrier  to repeatedly  lift the  rider  as both an  exercise and a  disciplinary  measure .  Establishing dominance in the practice of  the  pursuit itself. It would also be more appropriate  for the rider to not  exert himself while  the carrier is  disciplined(punished?) in  the exercise   while the rider  simply sits on  his  neck in comparative   comfort,  emphasizing  their  relative  positions.

I  see  nothing  objectionable in  regard to the  rider sitting on  the  carrier's back in  the  hands and knees  position during  breaks either.   The  carriers  legs are  still resting,  which is  where  most of  his  strain would  seem  to be.  If  the carrier  is  lying on his  back,  the rider sitting  on his  stomach  or  on his chest  as the case  may  be  would be  perhaps more  practical.  There  may be some exceptions depending on the  physicality of the  carrier and rider  and some  might see some  problems in  aspects of intimacy  etc.  But  since  the inherent position  of the activity  involves  the rider  sitting on  the  carrier,  where  he/she  sits  shouldn't  be  an issue  beyond  the carrier's  ability to withstand the  weight.

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#12 2016-07-06 17:38:34

Stepmother
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

If the mount is to small and the rider to big? What can I do for de rests?

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#13 2016-07-06 19:03:40

servusmulierum
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

Stepmother wrote:

If the mount is to small and the rider to big? What can I do for de rests?

If he could shoulder-carry you, he will be able to bear your weight during the breaks, on his back, chest, belly ... everywhere!

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#14 2016-07-06 19:16:14

servusmulierum
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

I  see  nothing  objectionable in  regard to the  rider sitting on  the  carrier's back in  the  hands and knees  position during  breaks either.   The  carriers  legs are  still resting,  which is  where  most of  his  strain would  seem  to be.

In that position, the carrier's back will still be under strain, in a different way, but still straining. And his neck as well, possibly ... That's why I strongly recommend that the carrier lies on his back during the breaks. And even a demanding rider could agree, not out of empathy, but mainly to spare his mount so he can ride it further ... smile

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#15 2016-07-07 16:32:19

Audreyb
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

stepmother: As  servusmulierum pointed out, if  the  person can carry  you  while  you are sitting on his shoulders, he should  be able to  bear your weight when  you sit on his chest or even on his back if he  is  on  his hands and knees. His arms may become tired  if you sit  on his back to  close to his head  and if this is a  concern,  you  can  sit lower  on  his back  closer to his  buttocks. 
I might  imagine that  if  your smaller carrier was  not as  cooperative as  you might  have liked, where  you  sit  on him  and  in  what  position might  act as a  mild  disciplinary  measure to  insure   that he is more cooperative and puts  more effort  in his  role when  you mount his shoulders after  the rest  period. 
I  might  also  point out that you  are also  resting during  these  rest period since  there is some effort  on  your part  to remain seated  on his shoulders, particularly if your  carrier is  uncooperative  or straining to remain  upright.   As such,  your  comfort should not  be  dismissed and in  my  opinion, should be  a greater  priority.

While it is  also  true that sitting on  your  carrier's  back may  well  put strain on his back and  neck,  this  may  have a positive effect as well  in that his  spine will arch  and  stretch under your weight  and relieve the  compression that occurred while you  were sitting on his shoulders,  and the added  exercise may  help strengthen  his arms which  receive  very little strain while  you  are sitting on his  shoulders.
You  might also simply put the  carrier into a  kowtow  position which would allow you  to  sit  on his  back  as you  might sit on a stool.

These are of course  simply  ideas  since   I  am  not the  most experienced  shoulder rider on this  forum.   Your own proclivity and  your  relationship  with  your  carrier will inevitably be  unique to both  parties involved in this activity.  Some  carriers  may   like  having his  master/mistress sitting on his  stomach  or chest  and some  may  suffer  from  it .  For  me,  the  primary  consideration  would be whether  the rider chooses  to  because as I already said,  I believe that for the experience to be fully enjoyed ,  the  rider  should  be  completely in  charge  and the  carrier to be as  subordinate  as  is  reasonable and  possible.   The  implied  positions of the  master or  mistress sitting upon  the  carrier  in any  consensual situation  implies  superiority. This  implication remains regardless of other aspects of  the relationship  if any  exist at all.
Checkmateguy  seems to have the  proper  attitude in these  matters  from  what I  can ascertain .

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#16 2016-07-07 22:51:03

brad's shoulders
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

@Audrey, you are making a great point here: the carrier's back will actually be used in a very different way, when he is serving as a human chair on all fours. And the areas most vulnerable to soreness during shoulder riding (especially the neck) will get to rest completely. How did you feel when sitting on your carrier's shoulder during the break from riding?

I am also curious to know the point of view of male riders on this aspect, especially the most dominant among you.

Whatever the carrier's preference, I believe he should simply obey the commands of his rider. Whether the carrier is immediately compliant - or is initially feisty and requires to be broken and trained - the ultimate goal is to provide our riders with strong, obedient ponies that will strive to make their experience the most satisfactory!

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#17 2016-07-08 03:16:31

Audreyb
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

brad's shoulders: Since  my carrier resented me being his rider, my attitude toward him became  less  compassionate  at the outing went on.   I accepted that his  sexual preference being gay, having to  carry a woman was not  to his liking. But  when his resentment became overt, walking deliberately heavy footed and bouncing me, causing me to struggle to stay  on  him in spite of his  master's orders, I wanted to  punish  him.  I  don't think  this desire on my part  was unjustified   because he  did have the  option of refusing to carry  me from the start and  agreed , even if  reluctantly.
During our first rest  period, I  didn't sit on him  at all as I explained.
On the second rest period I  took  the lead from my riding partner ,feeling  no desire to be  nice to the  carrier who had demonstrated his dislike  of me. With  no reasonably  clean place to sit, I sat on my  carrier's hunched over  back. My partner  as I  said  sat one of his  carrier's shoulder as I said and seemed  quite indifferent to  how  this effected his carrier.  For my part, I  didn't consciously try  to  hurt  my stubborn carrier, but I did enjoy his groan of discomfort and perhaps sat on his back a little  harder  than  I had to.
From my point of view, I was justified .  My partner,  that  my carrier would have  preferred to carry  was much more demanding and weighed 30 or  more  lbs. more than I did.  You would think that my carrier would have at least appreciated the lesser  burden.
I suppose I felt good about continuing to  burden him  when  I sat on  his back that way.  Most of my  boyfriends didn't  object when I sat on  them in various  ways  while playing or whatever,  I'm not unattractive  and  I'm not that heavy. Some of them  clearly liked me sitting on them some times.

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#18 2016-07-08 15:46:38

brad's shoulders
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

Audrey - Could it be that your carrier simply wanted you to assert your authority by hard-riding him?

Like Checkmateguy said above, a feisty pony is "often disobedient on purpose, the reason being that the pony wants to be ridden more harshly and enjoys being disciplined by the rider."

Personally, I am a heterosexual male who enjoys carrying women in any circumstances. I also carry men, but only if they are dominant enough to make me feel like I have no choice. Since I am not sexually attracted to them, I find such situation to be the purest form of domination / submission, but I can't get into that "zone" without a harsh and dominant attitude.

Conversely, your carrier was gay and preferred serving his male rider. So perhaps he needed a dominant attitude to be a good human pony for a woman. I am curious how he would react if - next time - you treated him as a slave since the very beginning, even ordering him to show his submission by dropping on his knees in front of you, and then being a harsh and demanding rider throughout the outing.

To be clear, I am not trying to justify his behavior. While I understand his possible desire to be dominated by a rider he was not sexually attracted to, I believe he should have given you a comfortable ride as a form of respect to both you and to his master who lent him to you. Like we discussed in a different thread, if I was your carrier and you authorized a male friend of yours to ride me, I would put my best effort into serving him because I would consider that - ultimately - as a service to you. So that would definitely represent an exception.

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#19 2016-07-08 17:21:20

Audreyb
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

brad's shoulders: My carrier definitely needed  discipline, but I don't believe he intended to entice me to demand more of him.  What I didn't  say is that he also made remarks concerning my gender  and a specific insult (fish)  that gay men intend as an insult to  women.
I believe he seriously intended to make  me uncomfortable so that I  would  voluntarily  get off  and walk , giving him the  "out"  so that his  master,  my friend,  wouldn't  punish or dismiss  him.
I wanted  to deal  with him myself rather than have my  friend discipline him,  partially because  he made me angry  , but also because I knew  my  friend  would very  likely  beat up on him.
I  preferred to  make him submit and obey  without excessive  violence  and  to basically  punish him in  the  task  that  he  resented.  Before the  third  rest stop  I didn't  just order him  to lower  his head,  I  pushed it forward  and scooted up so I was sitting on his  neck with his shoulders supporting my bottom. This  made him  hunch over and I used my  nails  on his ears  hard enough to  hurt and keep  him in that position.  I  knew he didn't dare  complain because  my  friend  would have pounced  on him and then  dismissed  him afterward.  I  had  seen my friend  get angry  with a masochist  slave  before   and while my  carrier  might have deserved  it, it  would have been unsettling on  an  otherwise pleasant day.  I will  admit that I rather wished  that I  was  much  heavier than I was. The thought of  squashing him amused  me quite a lot at that  point.

I  don't  have the time to keep a  "stable"  of  men  and  masochistic men,  no matter  their good intentions  demand  more time than ordinary  boyfriends.
But if I did have a group of submissive men  that were  carriers in  this  pursuit,  he or they  would be  expected to carry anyone I  directed them  to  and  obey the rider in every  respect whether the rider was male or  female, gay or straight,  light or  heavy and to the best of  his ability.
If a heavy  person ,whether a  man or woman chose  to sit  on  his chest during rest periods, that carrier  would be expected to  endure it. 

I needn't say that  the  carrier would  only be required to  perform as a carrier  in the manner I  described. No other service to  the rider that was not  mutually agreeable would be involved. I'm  sure you  understand my  meaning

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#20 2016-07-08 19:01:16

brad's shoulders
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

Audrey, thanks for sharing more details about your story. It definitely sounds like you chose the most suitable and thoughtful course of action, by exercising dominance - and even a touch of sadism - without making a scene or ruining the pleasant ride with your friend.

If I ever had the pleasure of being your carrier - even just for a single outing, without any "stable" - I would definitely consider part of my service to obey any other rider you authorize to use me. Weight, gender and sexual orientation would not make any difference: any decision on the matter would be yours. In short, I would be your disposable property for that period of time.

I would also accept any other form of service to any of my riders, as long as aimed at their comfort and enjoyment: being any type of human chair during breaks, kneeling in front of them to demonstrate my submission, withstanding discipline or punishments, and of course enduring as much strain as possible throughout the rides (even if they ride me aggressively, push my head down to ride me on the neck, give me orders through hard kicks, etc.)

I do understand what you mean - and yes, any other type of service would obviously be a completely separate arrangement.

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#21 2016-07-10 00:02:16

checkmateguy
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

In reply to brad's shoulders (2016-07-08), the joy (or thrill) of shoulder riding a sub guy (or sub female) is that a submissive person loves being submissive. Just as a dominant person loves being dominant. The biggest complaint subs have (and human ponies are submissive people) is that many apparently dominant people aren't dominant enough.

Whenever I have a sub person under my control (whether shoulder-riding them or whatever), I experience a surge of excitement and a rush of blood to a part of my anatomy that politeness forbids me to mention explicitly. I expect the person that I'm dominating is probably thinking that I am an assertive and cheeky individual and, if that's the case, he or she might well get aroused and excited by what I'm demanding he/she does. But, in my view, a submissive person exists to serve the needs and demands of dominant people like me. That's what they have been put on this earth for.

I feel it is my right to ride on the shoulders of a submissive pony-person. Further, I also feel that it is my right to ride the pony-person as assertively as I want but without causing the pony-person any injury (exhaustion and humiliation are okay). When I'm sat astride a pony-person's shoulders, I like to assert my authority over the pony and get the pony to do exactly what I want. Doing that is the essential fun/thrill of riding on a pony-person's shoulders. More so the fact that the pony is a thinking feeling person over whom I can assert my authority and power.

The purpose of making a pony lift and lower me repeatedly is to train the pony-person to comply with my orders and show subservience and obedience. That's the psychological aspect. The physical aspect of me making a pony-person do this is to build up the pony-person's strength and stamina. So to repeat myself: a submissive pony-person is there to serve. As a regular shoulder rider, I would say ride your pony-person (if you have one) in the same way as you would ride a dumb four-legged one. Assert your control over the pony-person and ride the pony-person just like you'd ride a four-legged one. You're riding the pony-person for your fun and enjoyment. Note: YOUR fun; YOUR enjoyment. If it gives you the ultimate thrill to ride your pony-person into the ground until the pony-person drops down exhausted then do that. If you feel like shoulder-riding your pony-person in a way that gives you another kind of kinky thrill then do that too. Doing that might give your pony-person a kinky thrill as well!   

... and yes, as a disciplinary and training technique, I frequently order submissive persons to get down on their knees to me and, once down on their knees, show me how subservient they can be.

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#22 2016-07-11 05:20:35

Audreyb
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Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

brad's shoulders and  checkmateguy :

Since  most of what has been  said here  is much  the same as I did,  there is  only a few  points of  clarification I  would like to  make. I  of course yield to both of you in the area  of experience in your  respective positions in this activity.

However, in regard to  dominance and specifically the dominance involving the "lending"  of a carrier to  another rider, I  hold to the position that while  the borrower should be as in control  and dominant as they would be  with their  own  submissive and the  carrier should  yield  to  the rider  just as he would to  his own master or  mistress. The  borrowing rider should respect  the  limitation of the  carrier in regard to other services and respect  the limitation that the  carrier's master indicates as well.

It  might be easy  for the  borrowing rider to begin  to feel a greater  ownership  of  the  carrier  than  is  implied. This could  become  a point of contention, especially  if  (as in  my case)  the  sexual  orientation of the carrier is  different from  the rider.  Being  fully in charge of  a person you are sitting on may  imply  more   dominance  and intimacy  than is agreeable  to  the carrier.   Compliance on the part of  the carrier as a  carrier  cannot be assumed to  extend to  intimacy  or acceptance  of  other  demands.   As  checkmateguy  indicated,  he  may  take advantage  of  his carrier being on his  knees in  front of him. This  is  of course  perfectly acceptable with a  carrier  of  your  own  orientation who has submitted to your  rightful  authority.  But to  expect the same of a carrier who is  complying with wishes of  his  own master/mistress  without  specific agreement  on the part of  the carrier  would  be improper. 
I  only  mention this because I  wouldn't   want  my  previous statements to be misunderstood  as  advocating forcible sexual  contact  or other potential abuse.

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#23 2016-07-13 14:51:53

servusmulierum
Member
Male (63), FRANCE
Registered: 2015-07-22
Last visit: 2017-09-07
Posts: 41

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

@ CHECKMATEGUY

You've written an outstanding analysis of a Dom/Sub Relationship ! "A sub exists to serve the needs and demands of dominant people ... That's what they have been put on this earth for ..Ride a pony-person the same way you would ride a dumb four-legged one ..." I totally second these points !!!

I am a sub, I am straight, but I would proudly serve You, Checkmateguy, because You are a real Superior person, and Under You I would realize my true personality, that of a sub, that of an inferior person, put on this earth to serve the Superior persons in whatever way they wish. Shoulder ride being an excellent  entry point to that ideally unbalanced relationship .

Thanks for this great post !

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#24 2016-07-16 18:35:07

lovetoride
Member
Male (30), India
Registered: 2011-12-17
Last visit: 2017-11-05
Posts: 147

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

Well…this reminds me of two of my girlfriends.

One fine day while we were talking, The first one took my feet all by herself and started caressing. After that she also kissed my feet. This was a total surprise for me and never had slightest idea about it before it actually happened.

About my second girlfriend, I have even kept my feet on her face, though she was the complaining type. To be honest, I enjoyed the first experience more. I am not talking about shoulder riding but only related to the topic…..submissive vs complaining.

Once I had a nice shoulder riding experience on a willing girl. When we reached our pre-decided destination, she waited for me to dismount. But as per my usual habit, I kept seated. Interestingly she started to walk again and completed another full round and this was a very pleasant surprise to me.

My point is willing mount can give you some surprising extra service.

That being said, I don’t like it, if the carrier tries to take charge. This happened to me once and I found a simple solution. I gave a task of too long ride on all four which she was not able to cover. She got tired in between and collapsed but I refused to get off. It took very long time for her to complete and I was sitting on her the whole time, in whatever resting position she was in. After that she never tried to take charge!

Once I rode a girl who was highly complaining and did not have slightest idea about submissiveness. It was a great pleasure sitting on her when she was complaining every second I was on her and riding her was a great experience. Especially after the ride when she anticipates eagerly that I will get off her but I keep seated!


.................The Rider................

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#25 2016-07-16 18:40:29

lovetoride
Member
Male (30), India
Registered: 2011-12-17
Last visit: 2017-11-05
Posts: 147

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

And regarding breaking a wild human pony,
I think no such thing exist in free world unless the rider and pony is having some role play.
This is just my opinion.

I think, only two types of pony exist. One that is a carrier for money or other needs or lacks the courage to oppose. Others are pure submissive people like servusmulierum.


.................The Rider................

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#26 2016-07-16 18:43:21

lovetoride
Member
Male (30), India
Registered: 2011-12-17
Last visit: 2017-11-05
Posts: 147

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

@ servusmulierum
By the way I really liked your thinking. You can serve as a perfect pony to me
because I am too lazy to walk around and
I am in need of a 24 hrs service of an inferior person who should be constantly under me for my sitting and moving-around needs.

You seem perfect to make my life easier as well as I want to use you for my personal pleasure. I am straight.


.................The Rider................

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#27 2016-07-19 14:33:51

Audreyb
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Registered: 2014-09-29
Last visit: 2018-12-14
Posts: 325

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

I  must take  exception to  the  implied generalization that a carrier is invariably  inferior.
The carrier  should  of course be treated as  inferior  while performing his/her task   and perhaps  beyond  if  that is the  basis of  the  relationship  between the rider and  carrier. But this  doesn't inevitably prove  his inferiority as a  person.  The  carrier  must submit while the  rider is sitting on him and  perhaps for the  duration of the outing. The  rider  directs the  actions and may  make demands ,  but  the  carrier's  limits on these  demands  must be maintained  and should be agreed  upon in  advance. 

In  imagining a  society where it  was  possible to legally own  another  person,  I can  see a  situation  where a  slave ,  having  no  rights  could be  treated like any other possession. He/she might be  put to any task or  use  that  his  owner  desires and  punished for any  misdeed  or failure. He/she would be furniture  to  sit  upon  and a beast of  burden  to  ride,  with  no  more  rights or  consideration than a  chair or a donkey. If the  master wants the slave to  suffer  the slave  must suffer.
This is  how I see  the ideal rider/carrier  relationship to be , but  only  as  role  play in  a  free  society.

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#28 2016-07-19 17:39:13

servusmulierum
Member
Male (63), FRANCE
Registered: 2015-07-22
Last visit: 2017-09-07
Posts: 41

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

I fully support Your definition of a an ideal Rider/carrier Relationship. And I  am also happy to live in a free society ....

But, in a free societey a submissive should have the right, or the liberty, to choose to be a slave  ... In order to respect all other basic Rights of that free society, this voluntary enslavement should be defined by a contract, probably, a fixed-term contract, of, say, 5 years, as is the rule in most business deals. And all what made slavery unacceptable in the past would be banned by such contract, mainly : Hereditary transfer, right to sell and buy, right of life and death ...

This contract would just provide a legal framework to slavery, and penalties for infringers. Without those legal constraints, the voluntary slave would be in fact the master of the game, as he would have every latitude to opt out whenever he would wish. And clearly, slavery is such a hard status, that most slaves, even voluntary ones, would often wish to  drop out before the 5 year term  ....! Sometimes to their detriment, because having a hard life is a masochist's best way to  happiness....wink

With this contract, shoulder riding would  meet the requirements of  the "role play" You so well defined in Your post. With perennity added!

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#29 2016-07-20 14:33:33

Audreyb
Member
Registered: 2014-09-29
Last visit: 2018-12-14
Posts: 325

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

I  agree that a  contract of  servitude would be useful  and perhaps  the  ideal situation , requiring specific services  with  conditions   that  both the master and  slave are required  to follow.
Obviously all other services and expectations  outside  of  the  original  agreement would be  by  mutual  agreement.  I'm not a  lawyer,  so I  have  no  idea  how such a  contract would be  viewed in  a  court of  law.  I'm  guessing that in most  countries  the  court would not  hold either party  to  such a  contract.

I  wouldn't enter  into  such an  arrangement  myself  because I  simply wouldn't want  the obligation on my  end  to interfere   with  my life . A carrier  might want  to  carry  me more often or less often  than I want to  ride him and I  may  have other things  to  do  or simply  not feel like  it.

But in  such  a relationship  with such a  contract, I  would  want  stipulations included to offset  possible expectations that either the  master or  slave might assume.
For example, >Lovestoride< indicated  that  he enjoyed  sitting on  his  female  carrier's  back  and to  correct her unauthorized actions  by remaining  sitting on her when  she collapsed . Since this was an  acceptable  action  for  both  of them, there should be  no problem. But  it can't be assumed that such  disciplinary  measures would acceptable in  every case.

In my  case, there  have been  several times in the  past  where a  carrier who  was  not  by definition a 'slave"  or even  really submissive, took  certain liberties  in  touching me  more than was  required.
He  assumed  that  because  the  implied intimate contact , specifically my  sitting on his  shoulders  also implied such  liberties were included.  My  feeling are that such  actions are  not acceptable  without  my specific agreement or in  a  relationship where those actions  are  implied as acceptable by  previous intimacies.  In  short, just because  I'm  sitting on my  carrier's shoulders  or  back,  he shouldn't assume he can touch me  gratuitously of his  own  accord.
A  contract could establish  such  limitations and establish  the  parameters concerning when  such things may be  breached or set aside.

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#30 2016-07-21 16:18:52

lovetoride
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Male (30), India
Registered: 2011-12-17
Last visit: 2017-11-05
Posts: 147

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

Dear Audreyb


The idea of contract is great in a free society but I don’t feel your concern about this is really necessary.  (You said, I  wouldn't enter  into  such an  arrangement  myself  because I  simply wouldn't want  the obligation on my  end  to interfere   with  my life . A carrier  might want  to  carry  me more often or less often  than I want to  ride him and I  may  have other things  to  do  or simply  not feel like  it.)


By definition, this contract would mean that master would use his slave as he or she wishes. The only limitations in such contract that could apply to the master or mistress would be regarding physical injury to the slave. The slave by definition could not have any right to decide when he wants to carry. Slave has to carry the master / mistress whenever being instructed.


And taking disciplinary measures whenever the master / mistress wishes cannot be challenged by the slave whatsoever. A slave who will sign any contract is necessarily a masochist and so disciplinary measures need not be a mutually acceptable one.


And I think adding some unpredictability to the slave is the best way to show who is the boss. In my case, when I kept sitting, her uncomfortably increased and she realized that she was not giving ride to me but in fact I was riding her. It was not a mutual consent. The only reason she allowed is that she could not afford to disappoint me until our contract time. I am sure she did not regret it after the contract time as she was rewarded well. Similarly, a masochist will not regret such an activity after the contract duration as he or she is by definition a masochist.


And I liked it very much when you mentioned once that you sat on a person during resting period between your shoulder ride as a disciplinary measure which you said you otherwise normally don’t do. And yes, I would have done the same in your place!


.................The Rider................

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#31 2016-07-21 16:19:48

lovetoride
Member
Male (30), India
Registered: 2011-12-17
Last visit: 2017-11-05
Posts: 147

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

Dear servusmulierum

I have replied to your personal mail.


.................The Rider................

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#32 2016-07-21 20:27:01

Audreyb
Member
Registered: 2014-09-29
Last visit: 2018-12-14
Posts: 325

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

Lovestoride: As a  heterosexual male, you would almost certainly understand that a  heterosexual  submissive/carrier would want  certain limitations  on  potential  acts  that  might be  demanded by  a  male rider  that  a  woman  might  loan  her slave to.

Hypothetically, assuming I had such  a  contract and  my "slave"  was  a  heterosexual  submissive, I would  almost  certainly loan him  to my  gay  friend  who had previously  loaned me the  man I  rode on  during  those  outings. 
This  friend did  nothing  but ride on  his carrier and  sit on him  during rest periods, which of course  I  would require  my "slave"  to accept  from  my friend as well.  But while  my friend  didn't   take any  additional personal gratuitous pleasure  from his  carrier  during our  outings, he  told me that his attitude  concerning his  submissives  was rather  like Checkmate Guy said in regard to his carriers  who was kneeling  in front of him after  Checkmate  Guy rode  on his neck.
Since  Checkmate guy  and his  carrier are  gay  and my  friend and his carrier  are  gay,  what  they do  is a  private matter.

However,  I  can imagine my  friend riding  my  Hypothetical Heterosexual  slave  to  exhaustion  and feeling that he  could use  him  like his own  slave.  My Heterosexual  male acquaintances would be  very  adverse to such  contact  and  I might assume  that  my heterosexual  slave would be as well.

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#33 2016-07-22 09:51:12

servusmulierum
Member
Male (63), FRANCE
Registered: 2015-07-22
Last visit: 2017-09-07
Posts: 41

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

@Ms Audrey

I basically agree with You, as regards certain limitations that should be agreed upon, with or without a written contract, when it comes to sexual requests/demands  from the rider...However, sex being almost everywhere in our activities, and especially in shoulder-rides, I think that these limitations should be expressed in a statement which would say "everything is allowed, except x... y...z....."

According to me, the list of exceptions should be a very short one. I could easily write it, but it would be against the rules of this forum   ... sad

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#34 2016-07-25 14:59:52

Audreyb
Member
Registered: 2014-09-29
Last visit: 2018-12-14
Posts: 325

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

servusmulierum:  I can see  your point  in regard to specifically  ruling out certain liberties taken  with a  carrier that is  another  persons "property"  and of course good  manners should dictate  that compliance  to  the owners rules should be in the spirit of  those rules  and not simply  the  letter.

But  the contract  is  between  the owner/rider and the slave/carrier  and  not with  the person the owner  might  loan the  slave to.   
There is a certain  feeling of  ownership that  someone feels  when directing  someone who is serving beneath them obediently as a beast of  burden.  I felt this sense of ownership while riding  the shoulders of my  friend's submissive  while  knowing  that  the  submissive was gay  and resentful of  being my carrier.  My  friend  encouraged  me  to use  him just as he was using  the submissive man that he was sitting on and  I wouldn't  abuse the  spirit of my  friends  intentions.
Yet I admit I would have felt this sense of power over  the  carrier even  without my  friend's encouragement.    I  can imagine a  situation  where a rider who became excited and  libidinous  could feel  that  he(or she?)  could just  sit on  an  exhausted carrier and do whatever he  wanted  to do.
I  know  for example  that  most of  my  friends  would obey  my  rules  but  several of them are quite dominant  in their  lifestyle and two, including  the man  who  loaned me  my  carrier, could force their  will  and desires  on someone  of  average size or smaller. Not that they would of course,  I  just mean that it's  possible.

My  point is that in  a  voluntary Mistress/slave situation, I would prefer to have  boundaries   and avoid  complications.

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#35 2018-10-06 07:04:04

willams
Member
Registered: 2018-10-06
Last visit: 2018-10-10
Posts: 4

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

Stepmother wrote:

If the mount is to small and the rider to big? What can I do for de rests?

tell me if you felt heavy sitting on someone ..?

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#36 2018-10-20 21:33:54

stalot
Member
Male (45), austria
Registered: 2012-09-10
Last visit: 2018-11-01
Posts: 118

Re: Submissive or feisty carrier?

movieyou2003 wrote:

@brad
Do you mind if I squeeze your neck if I ever get to "break you"?

movieyou, this is joe
my head is yours
qq2898010552

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