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Question for all the riders out there: do you prefer a carrier who is immediately submissive and compliant to all your commands, or you'd rather ride a slightly wilder mount who needs some "breaking" before fully submitting to you?
As a carrier, I tend to be chivalrous and 100% compliant with any female rider, especially if she is lighter than me (which is usually the case, since I am 185 lbs). But I will pretend to be a little restless at first beneath a male rider, to see if he is dominant enough to take charge of me and make me submit to him.
For me the fun of riding is enhanced if I have to make the carriers (always males in my case) submissive so I can exercise my power over them. In my opinion the rider should be the boss. That position is emphasized when the carrier plays his part in this game.
I like Frenk's reply and attitude. I believe the rider should be in control simply because it seems right and natural. When I sit on a horse or in a car, I direct them to take me where I choose to go. I don't let them just take me where they happen to choose to wander. The rider should be the master and the carrier the servant for at least as long as the ride lasts, assuming it's something they are participating in and not some kind of necessary need to transport someone.
However I am amused by the concept of a rider mounting and breaking an unwilling carrier.
Climbing aboard to sit on his neck or shoulders and remaining there until he is broken and submits as one would do with a wild horse is an entertaining and amusing thought. But I can't imagine how this could be done. It would appear rather easy for the carrier to unseat the rider who would be perched on a rather precarious seat. The balance of this position would appear to favor the carrier winning such a struggle. But still, I think I would love to watch such a contest.
Your right about the advantage the carrier has over his rider, unseating him would be very easy. But I wasn't thinking about making him submissive like one could do with a wild horse, but getting him to do what you want him to do by means of vocal instructions, threats or mild physical stimulation.
It gives me pleasure if the carrier is reluctant to go any further if he's getting tired, yet I can make him do it anyway. The thought of enjoying myself at his expense, me sitting comfortably whilst he has to work hard accommodate his rider excites me.
What interests me is why exactly brad's shoulders treats his female and male riders differently in this respect. I can see why a man doesn't want to submit himself to another man without a "fight", but maybe his female riders would like to have the same experience of getting him in line? Perhaps he can elaborate on this a little bit more?
@Audrey - As a "slightly unwilling" horse I would not actually try to unseat my rider. I would just be a little restless, for example trying to push my head up to limit the strain of my neck, or hesitating in my response to some commands. My hope and expectation would be for the rider to treat me harshly until I give in, recognizing her/his absolute power over me and starting to behave like a perfect servant. At that point I would bend my neck forward as much as possible, irrespective of my discomfort, to make a comfortable saddle for her/him. I would place my hands around her/his feet to simulate stirrups and enhance the rider's comfort, if needed. And I would obey promptly to any commands, whether subtle or harsh, providing my best effort for her/his maximum comfort and pleasure.
@Frenk - I would definitely behave as a "slightly unwilling" horse with a woman as well, if she wanted to experience that. And I would definitely enjoy it! What I meant in my previous post is that my preference is to be ridden by women, so I am usually willing to fully submit to a female rider right away, but I would prefer a male rider to feel my initial resistance and then force me to submit.
Do you mind if I squeeze your neck if I ever get to "break you"?
Since the relationship with the rider and carrier can be quite unique to them alone, I would hesitate to imply a one size fits all rule on the subject.
However I completely agree that the rider should always be in charge for the experience to be fully realized, I believe that pushing the limits of a reluctant mount is well within the parameters of reasonable expectations. You are the one sitting on him after all and that alone implies control and dominance. Your comfort and enjoyment shouldn't be limited by the desires or stress of the man carrying you. I'm not suggesting a "ride him until he drops" scenario unless of course that is the nature of your relationship, but you should expect him to comply with your directions, the duration of the ride and to position himself so that you can sit comfortably on him even if it's uncomfortable for him to carry you sitting on him that way.
I prefer to have my bottom supported by the carrier's back and shoulders and not have my bottom hanging off while with my crotch pressed against his erect neck. Others may prefer other positions they find more comfortable. But it really should be the riders preference.
I might suggest that even rest periods and the conditions of those rest periods should be determined by the rider. My male friend who took me on the outings and supplies my carrier and who also inspired my interest in this activity, expressed very similar views to yours and demonstrated his proclivity as well. He spurred (figuratively) his carrier on until he thought that resting his mount was appropriate and sat on his mount's shoulder (one shoulder) with the mount sitting on ground while he waited until he decided the man had rested enough to continue.
I rested my carrier while using a log for a seat that first time, but followed my friends lead when my carrier continued to be resentful of his position. I admit this was partially because I didn't want to get my bottom dirty and there were no clean logs near by, but it also served to imply our relative stations in the affair.
My opinion is different from those opinions already given by other members. I like both an obedient human pony to ride and I also like a slightly disobedient one too and the latter kind of pony is often disobedient on purpose, the reason being that the pony wants to be ridden more harshly and enjoys being disciplined by the rider.
I find it is fun to ride around on the shoulders of a willing and compliant pony. It is also fun, albeit a different kind of fun, to ride around on the shoulders of a pony in a 'hard-ride' way because the pony wants to be 'hard-rode' by a dominant rider. I think I might have mentioned in the past that some human ponies like the excitement of being rode by a dominant and demanding rider and I, for example, will make (or train) this sort of pony to do a series of things to show me that he can and will do what I, as his rider, want and require him to do. I refer to such a pony as a 'he' because it is invariably male ponies which like to be 'hard-rode.'
These things can be quite simple training techniques. A pony whether a four-legged one or a two-legged human one has to obey the rider. The first very elementary requirement for a pony is to bend down and push his head between the rider's thighs and lift the rider up onto his shoulders. So I will stand there, feet apart, and get my human pony to push his head between my thighs and lift me up. Essentially, the pony becomes a human crane lifting a load up on the back of his neck then using his back and legs together to lift the rider fully up onto his shoulders. But when I'm training a pony to do this and he needs corrective disciplinary training, after he has lifted me I order him to immediately lower me in the same way and as soon as my feet touch the ground, I order him to lift me again. After he has lifted and lowered me several times - maybe six, seven or eight times - he is quite exhausted but he is learning to obey me, his rider.
When I'm shoulder-riding a human pony that needs/likes disciplinary/corrective training, I use thigh-nudges and toes/heel digs to make him change direction or speed. These commands are done quickly and abruptly in order to dominate the pony and get him to respond to me, his rider, instantly with penalties for slow or poor performances. A favourite penalty I use is to make the pony stand still while I sit there astride his shoulders with my crotch pressed fully up to the back of his neck so that his head is forced down and make him feel the pain and my weight with my legs hanging loose and make him stand like that for five or even ten minutes. It might sound harsh but some ponies need this sort of disciplinary training. After a period of training like this for a few weeks or months which includes harsh and dominant riding, the result is a fully trained and more importantly a fully compliant human pony who will readily lift the rider up onto his shoulders and give the rider a long and satisfying ride. That is what a human pony should do and that is what a human pony is for.
@movieyou2003 - Yes, I would definitely let my rider's legs squeeze my neck. It is her/his prerogative to choose how to break and ride me.
@audreyb - A carrier's neck makes an excellent saddle when bent forward, and every rider should demand it. One of my riders once pushed my head down so much that my chin was pressed into my chest. He said the ride was extremely comfortable, and my soreness was completely irrelevant. During breaks, I have found that the best way to provide a comfortable and clean seat for my rider is for me to get on all fours. This way my shoulders and neck can rest and soon be ready for more shoulder riding, while my back/wrists/knees take their turn being used for the comfort of my rider.
@checkmateguy - You are absolutely right! The reason why a carrier might be feisty is that he needs to be dominated and broken. I think any rider would love nothing more than to enjoy a strong, submissive and compliant pony who is the result of the training and even punishments he/she has inflicted on him. What would you do if the pony refused to keep lifting you up and down? And what other "penalties" do you use during training? Last but not least: once the pony is fully trained and compliant, would you still ride him harshly just for your enjoyment?
Brad's shoulders ..
I totally agree with you : A demanding rider should demand his mount to bent his head forward, in order to improve his riding comfort!
Now as regards the best way to provide a comfortable sitting to the rider during breaks, I believe that it might be best when the carrier lies down on his back with raised knees : The rider then sits on his belly and leans back on his thighs which should thus be at a 45° angle, more or less, according to the rider's wishes ... THe carrier in this position may also better relax his sore neck, while also providing some foot-worship service if required by the rider ...
While I don't require foot worship during rest periods , I imagine that such things would depend on the relationship of the rider and carrier and the services that are expected.
I can certainly see Checkmate guy's point of view in requiring a less cooperative carrier to repeatedly lift the rider as both an exercise and a disciplinary measure . Establishing dominance in the practice of the pursuit itself. It would also be more appropriate for the rider to not exert himself while the carrier is disciplined(punished?) in the exercise while the rider simply sits on his neck in comparative comfort, emphasizing their relative positions.
I see nothing objectionable in regard to the rider sitting on the carrier's back in the hands and knees position during breaks either. The carriers legs are still resting, which is where most of his strain would seem to be. If the carrier is lying on his back, the rider sitting on his stomach or on his chest as the case may be would be perhaps more practical. There may be some exceptions depending on the physicality of the carrier and rider and some might see some problems in aspects of intimacy etc. But since the inherent position of the activity involves the rider sitting on the carrier, where he/she sits shouldn't be an issue beyond the carrier's ability to withstand the weight.
If the mount is to small and the rider to big? What can I do for de rests?
If the mount is to small and the rider to big? What can I do for de rests?
If he could shoulder-carry you, he will be able to bear your weight during the breaks, on his back, chest, belly ... everywhere!
I see nothing objectionable in regard to the rider sitting on the carrier's back in the hands and knees position during breaks either. The carriers legs are still resting, which is where most of his strain would seem to be.
In that position, the carrier's back will still be under strain, in a different way, but still straining. And his neck as well, possibly ... That's why I strongly recommend that the carrier lies on his back during the breaks. And even a demanding rider could agree, not out of empathy, but mainly to spare his mount so he can ride it further ...
stepmother: As servusmulierum pointed out, if the person can carry you while you are sitting on his shoulders, he should be able to bear your weight when you sit on his chest or even on his back if he is on his hands and knees. His arms may become tired if you sit on his back to close to his head and if this is a concern, you can sit lower on his back closer to his buttocks.
I might imagine that if your smaller carrier was not as cooperative as you might have liked, where you sit on him and in what position might act as a mild disciplinary measure to insure that he is more cooperative and puts more effort in his role when you mount his shoulders after the rest period.
I might also point out that you are also resting during these rest period since there is some effort on your part to remain seated on his shoulders, particularly if your carrier is uncooperative or straining to remain upright. As such, your comfort should not be dismissed and in my opinion, should be a greater priority.
While it is also true that sitting on your carrier's back may well put strain on his back and neck, this may have a positive effect as well in that his spine will arch and stretch under your weight and relieve the compression that occurred while you were sitting on his shoulders, and the added exercise may help strengthen his arms which receive very little strain while you are sitting on his shoulders.
You might also simply put the carrier into a kowtow position which would allow you to sit on his back as you might sit on a stool.
These are of course simply ideas since I am not the most experienced shoulder rider on this forum. Your own proclivity and your relationship with your carrier will inevitably be unique to both parties involved in this activity. Some carriers may like having his master/mistress sitting on his stomach or chest and some may suffer from it . For me, the primary consideration would be whether the rider chooses to because as I already said, I believe that for the experience to be fully enjoyed , the rider should be completely in charge and the carrier to be as subordinate as is reasonable and possible. The implied positions of the master or mistress sitting upon the carrier in any consensual situation implies superiority. This implication remains regardless of other aspects of the relationship if any exist at all.
Checkmateguy seems to have the proper attitude in these matters from what I can ascertain .
@Audrey, you are making a great point here: the carrier's back will actually be used in a very different way, when he is serving as a human chair on all fours. And the areas most vulnerable to soreness during shoulder riding (especially the neck) will get to rest completely. How did you feel when sitting on your carrier's shoulder during the break from riding?
I am also curious to know the point of view of male riders on this aspect, especially the most dominant among you.
Whatever the carrier's preference, I believe he should simply obey the commands of his rider. Whether the carrier is immediately compliant - or is initially feisty and requires to be broken and trained - the ultimate goal is to provide our riders with strong, obedient ponies that will strive to make their experience the most satisfactory!
brad's shoulders: Since my carrier resented me being his rider, my attitude toward him became less compassionate at the outing went on. I accepted that his sexual preference being gay, having to carry a woman was not to his liking. But when his resentment became overt, walking deliberately heavy footed and bouncing me, causing me to struggle to stay on him in spite of his master's orders, I wanted to punish him. I don't think this desire on my part was unjustified because he did have the option of refusing to carry me from the start and agreed , even if reluctantly.
During our first rest period, I didn't sit on him at all as I explained.
On the second rest period I took the lead from my riding partner ,feeling no desire to be nice to the carrier who had demonstrated his dislike of me. With no reasonably clean place to sit, I sat on my carrier's hunched over back. My partner as I said sat one of his carrier's shoulder as I said and seemed quite indifferent to how this effected his carrier. For my part, I didn't consciously try to hurt my stubborn carrier, but I did enjoy his groan of discomfort and perhaps sat on his back a little harder than I had to.
From my point of view, I was justified . My partner, that my carrier would have preferred to carry was much more demanding and weighed 30 or more lbs. more than I did. You would think that my carrier would have at least appreciated the lesser burden.
I suppose I felt good about continuing to burden him when I sat on his back that way. Most of my boyfriends didn't object when I sat on them in various ways while playing or whatever, I'm not unattractive and I'm not that heavy. Some of them clearly liked me sitting on them some times.
Audrey - Could it be that your carrier simply wanted you to assert your authority by hard-riding him?
Like Checkmateguy said above, a feisty pony is "often disobedient on purpose, the reason being that the pony wants to be ridden more harshly and enjoys being disciplined by the rider."
Personally, I am a heterosexual male who enjoys carrying women in any circumstances. I also carry men, but only if they are dominant enough to make me feel like I have no choice. Since I am not sexually attracted to them, I find such situation to be the purest form of domination / submission, but I can't get into that "zone" without a harsh and dominant attitude.
Conversely, your carrier was gay and preferred serving his male rider. So perhaps he needed a dominant attitude to be a good human pony for a woman. I am curious how he would react if - next time - you treated him as a slave since the very beginning, even ordering him to show his submission by dropping on his knees in front of you, and then being a harsh and demanding rider throughout the outing.
To be clear, I am not trying to justify his behavior. While I understand his possible desire to be dominated by a rider he was not sexually attracted to, I believe he should have given you a comfortable ride as a form of respect to both you and to his master who lent him to you. Like we discussed in a different thread, if I was your carrier and you authorized a male friend of yours to ride me, I would put my best effort into serving him because I would consider that - ultimately - as a service to you. So that would definitely represent an exception.
brad's shoulders: My carrier definitely needed discipline, but I don't believe he intended to entice me to demand more of him. What I didn't say is that he also made remarks concerning my gender and a specific insult (fish) that gay men intend as an insult to women.
I believe he seriously intended to make me uncomfortable so that I would voluntarily get off and walk , giving him the "out" so that his master, my friend, wouldn't punish or dismiss him.
I wanted to deal with him myself rather than have my friend discipline him, partially because he made me angry , but also because I knew my friend would very likely beat up on him.
I preferred to make him submit and obey without excessive violence and to basically punish him in the task that he resented. Before the third rest stop I didn't just order him to lower his head, I pushed it forward and scooted up so I was sitting on his neck with his shoulders supporting my bottom. This made him hunch over and I used my nails on his ears hard enough to hurt and keep him in that position. I knew he didn't dare complain because my friend would have pounced on him and then dismissed him afterward. I had seen my friend get angry with a masochist slave before and while my carrier might have deserved it, it would have been unsettling on an otherwise pleasant day. I will admit that I rather wished that I was much heavier than I was. The thought of squashing him amused me quite a lot at that point.
I don't have the time to keep a "stable" of men and masochistic men, no matter their good intentions demand more time than ordinary boyfriends.
But if I did have a group of submissive men that were carriers in this pursuit, he or they would be expected to carry anyone I directed them to and obey the rider in every respect whether the rider was male or female, gay or straight, light or heavy and to the best of his ability.
If a heavy person ,whether a man or woman chose to sit on his chest during rest periods, that carrier would be expected to endure it.
I needn't say that the carrier would only be required to perform as a carrier in the manner I described. No other service to the rider that was not mutually agreeable would be involved. I'm sure you understand my meaning
Audrey, thanks for sharing more details about your story. It definitely sounds like you chose the most suitable and thoughtful course of action, by exercising dominance - and even a touch of sadism - without making a scene or ruining the pleasant ride with your friend.
If I ever had the pleasure of being your carrier - even just for a single outing, without any "stable" - I would definitely consider part of my service to obey any other rider you authorize to use me. Weight, gender and sexual orientation would not make any difference: any decision on the matter would be yours. In short, I would be your disposable property for that period of time.
I would also accept any other form of service to any of my riders, as long as aimed at their comfort and enjoyment: being any type of human chair during breaks, kneeling in front of them to demonstrate my submission, withstanding discipline or punishments, and of course enduring as much strain as possible throughout the rides (even if they ride me aggressively, push my head down to ride me on the neck, give me orders through hard kicks, etc.)
I do understand what you mean - and yes, any other type of service would obviously be a completely separate arrangement.
In reply to brad's shoulders (2016-07-08), the joy (or thrill) of shoulder riding a sub guy (or sub female) is that a submissive person loves being submissive. Just as a dominant person loves being dominant. The biggest complaint subs have (and human ponies are submissive people) is that many apparently dominant people aren't dominant enough.
Whenever I have a sub person under my control (whether shoulder-riding them or whatever), I experience a surge of excitement and a rush of blood to a part of my anatomy that politeness forbids me to mention explicitly. I expect the person that I'm dominating is probably thinking that I am an assertive and cheeky individual and, if that's the case, he or she might well get aroused and excited by what I'm demanding he/she does. But, in my view, a submissive person exists to serve the needs and demands of dominant people like me. That's what they have been put on this earth for.
I feel it is my right to ride on the shoulders of a submissive pony-person. Further, I also feel that it is my right to ride the pony-person as assertively as I want but without causing the pony-person any injury (exhaustion and humiliation are okay). When I'm sat astride a pony-person's shoulders, I like to assert my authority over the pony and get the pony to do exactly what I want. Doing that is the essential fun/thrill of riding on a pony-person's shoulders. More so the fact that the pony is a thinking feeling person over whom I can assert my authority and power.
The purpose of making a pony lift and lower me repeatedly is to train the pony-person to comply with my orders and show subservience and obedience. That's the psychological aspect. The physical aspect of me making a pony-person do this is to build up the pony-person's strength and stamina. So to repeat myself: a submissive pony-person is there to serve. As a regular shoulder rider, I would say ride your pony-person (if you have one) in the same way as you would ride a dumb four-legged one. Assert your control over the pony-person and ride the pony-person just like you'd ride a four-legged one. You're riding the pony-person for your fun and enjoyment. Note: YOUR fun; YOUR enjoyment. If it gives you the ultimate thrill to ride your pony-person into the ground until the pony-person drops down exhausted then do that. If you feel like shoulder-riding your pony-person in a way that gives you another kind of kinky thrill then do that too. Doing that might give your pony-person a kinky thrill as well!
... and yes, as a disciplinary and training technique, I frequently order submissive persons to get down on their knees to me and, once down on their knees, show me how subservient they can be.
brad's shoulders and checkmateguy :
Since most of what has been said here is much the same as I did, there is only a few points of clarification I would like to make. I of course yield to both of you in the area of experience in your respective positions in this activity.
However, in regard to dominance and specifically the dominance involving the "lending" of a carrier to another rider, I hold to the position that while the borrower should be as in control and dominant as they would be with their own submissive and the carrier should yield to the rider just as he would to his own master or mistress. The borrowing rider should respect the limitation of the carrier in regard to other services and respect the limitation that the carrier's master indicates as well.
It might be easy for the borrowing rider to begin to feel a greater ownership of the carrier than is implied. This could become a point of contention, especially if (as in my case) the sexual orientation of the carrier is different from the rider. Being fully in charge of a person you are sitting on may imply more dominance and intimacy than is agreeable to the carrier. Compliance on the part of the carrier as a carrier cannot be assumed to extend to intimacy or acceptance of other demands. As checkmateguy indicated, he may take advantage of his carrier being on his knees in front of him. This is of course perfectly acceptable with a carrier of your own orientation who has submitted to your rightful authority. But to expect the same of a carrier who is complying with wishes of his own master/mistress without specific agreement on the part of the carrier would be improper.
I only mention this because I wouldn't want my previous statements to be misunderstood as advocating forcible sexual contact or other potential abuse.
You've written an outstanding analysis of a Dom/Sub Relationship ! "A sub exists to serve the needs and demands of dominant people ... That's what they have been put on this earth for ..Ride a pony-person the same way you would ride a dumb four-legged one ..." I totally second these points !!!
I am a sub, I am straight, but I would proudly serve You, Checkmateguy, because You are a real Superior person, and Under You I would realize my true personality, that of a sub, that of an inferior person, put on this earth to serve the Superior persons in whatever way they wish. Shoulder ride being an excellent entry point to that ideally unbalanced relationship .
Thanks for this great post !
Well…this reminds me of two of my girlfriends.
One fine day while we were talking, The first one took my feet all by herself and started caressing. After that she also kissed my feet. This was a total surprise for me and never had slightest idea about it before it actually happened.
About my second girlfriend, I have even kept my feet on her face, though she was the complaining type. To be honest, I enjoyed the first experience more. I am not talking about shoulder riding but only related to the topic…..submissive vs complaining.
Once I had a nice shoulder riding experience on a willing girl. When we reached our pre-decided destination, she waited for me to dismount. But as per my usual habit, I kept seated. Interestingly she started to walk again and completed another full round and this was a very pleasant surprise to me.
My point is willing mount can give you some surprising extra service.
That being said, I don’t like it, if the carrier tries to take charge. This happened to me once and I found a simple solution. I gave a task of too long ride on all four which she was not able to cover. She got tired in between and collapsed but I refused to get off. It took very long time for her to complete and I was sitting on her the whole time, in whatever resting position she was in. After that she never tried to take charge!
Once I rode a girl who was highly complaining and did not have slightest idea about submissiveness. It was a great pleasure sitting on her when she was complaining every second I was on her and riding her was a great experience. Especially after the ride when she anticipates eagerly that I will get off her but I keep seated!
And regarding breaking a wild human pony,
I think no such thing exist in free world unless the rider and pony is having some role play.
This is just my opinion.
I think, only two types of pony exist. One that is a carrier for money or other needs or lacks the courage to oppose. Others are pure submissive people like servusmulierum.
By the way I really liked your thinking. You can serve as a perfect pony to me
because I am too lazy to walk around and
I am in need of a 24 hrs service of an inferior person who should be constantly under me for my sitting and moving-around needs.
You seem perfect to make my life easier as well as I want to use you for my personal pleasure. I am straight.
I must take exception to the implied generalization that a carrier is invariably inferior.
The carrier should of course be treated as inferior while performing his/her task and perhaps beyond if that is the basis of the relationship between the rider and carrier. But this doesn't inevitably prove his inferiority as a person. The carrier must submit while the rider is sitting on him and perhaps for the duration of the outing. The rider directs the actions and may make demands , but the carrier's limits on these demands must be maintained and should be agreed upon in advance.
In imagining a society where it was possible to legally own another person, I can see a situation where a slave , having no rights could be treated like any other possession. He/she might be put to any task or use that his owner desires and punished for any misdeed or failure. He/she would be furniture to sit upon and a beast of burden to ride, with no more rights or consideration than a chair or a donkey. If the master wants the slave to suffer the slave must suffer.
This is how I see the ideal rider/carrier relationship to be , but only as role play in a free society.
I fully support Your definition of a an ideal Rider/carrier Relationship. And I am also happy to live in a free society ....
But, in a free societey a submissive should have the right, or the liberty, to choose to be a slave ... In order to respect all other basic Rights of that free society, this voluntary enslavement should be defined by a contract, probably, a fixed-term contract, of, say, 5 years, as is the rule in most business deals. And all what made slavery unacceptable in the past would be banned by such contract, mainly : Hereditary transfer, right to sell and buy, right of life and death ...
This contract would just provide a legal framework to slavery, and penalties for infringers. Without those legal constraints, the voluntary slave would be in fact the master of the game, as he would have every latitude to opt out whenever he would wish. And clearly, slavery is such a hard status, that most slaves, even voluntary ones, would often wish to drop out before the 5 year term ....! Sometimes to their detriment, because having a hard life is a masochist's best way to happiness....
With this contract, shoulder riding would meet the requirements of the "role play" You so well defined in Your post. With perennity added!
I agree that a contract of servitude would be useful and perhaps the ideal situation , requiring specific services with conditions that both the master and slave are required to follow.
Obviously all other services and expectations outside of the original agreement would be by mutual agreement. I'm not a lawyer, so I have no idea how such a contract would be viewed in a court of law. I'm guessing that in most countries the court would not hold either party to such a contract.
I wouldn't enter into such an arrangement myself because I simply wouldn't want the obligation on my end to interfere with my life . A carrier might want to carry me more often or less often than I want to ride him and I may have other things to do or simply not feel like it.
But in such a relationship with such a contract, I would want stipulations included to offset possible expectations that either the master or slave might assume.
For example, >Lovestoride< indicated that he enjoyed sitting on his female carrier's back and to correct her unauthorized actions by remaining sitting on her when she collapsed . Since this was an acceptable action for both of them, there should be no problem. But it can't be assumed that such disciplinary measures would acceptable in every case.
In my case, there have been several times in the past where a carrier who was not by definition a 'slave" or even really submissive, took certain liberties in touching me more than was required.
He assumed that because the implied intimate contact , specifically my sitting on his shoulders also implied such liberties were included. My feeling are that such actions are not acceptable without my specific agreement or in a relationship where those actions are implied as acceptable by previous intimacies. In short, just because I'm sitting on my carrier's shoulders or back, he shouldn't assume he can touch me gratuitously of his own accord.
A contract could establish such limitations and establish the parameters concerning when such things may be breached or set aside.
The idea of contract is great in a free society but I don’t feel your concern about this is really necessary. (You said, I wouldn't enter into such an arrangement myself because I simply wouldn't want the obligation on my end to interfere with my life . A carrier might want to carry me more often or less often than I want to ride him and I may have other things to do or simply not feel like it.)
By definition, this contract would mean that master would use his slave as he or she wishes. The only limitations in such contract that could apply to the master or mistress would be regarding physical injury to the slave. The slave by definition could not have any right to decide when he wants to carry. Slave has to carry the master / mistress whenever being instructed.
And taking disciplinary measures whenever the master / mistress wishes cannot be challenged by the slave whatsoever. A slave who will sign any contract is necessarily a masochist and so disciplinary measures need not be a mutually acceptable one.
And I think adding some unpredictability to the slave is the best way to show who is the boss. In my case, when I kept sitting, her uncomfortably increased and she realized that she was not giving ride to me but in fact I was riding her. It was not a mutual consent. The only reason she allowed is that she could not afford to disappoint me until our contract time. I am sure she did not regret it after the contract time as she was rewarded well. Similarly, a masochist will not regret such an activity after the contract duration as he or she is by definition a masochist.
And I liked it very much when you mentioned once that you sat on a person during resting period between your shoulder ride as a disciplinary measure which you said you otherwise normally don’t do. And yes, I would have done the same in your place!
I have replied to your personal mail.
Lovestoride: As a heterosexual male, you would almost certainly understand that a heterosexual submissive/carrier would want certain limitations on potential acts that might be demanded by a male rider that a woman might loan her slave to.
Hypothetically, assuming I had such a contract and my "slave" was a heterosexual submissive, I would almost certainly loan him to my gay friend who had previously loaned me the man I rode on during those outings.
This friend did nothing but ride on his carrier and sit on him during rest periods, which of course I would require my "slave" to accept from my friend as well. But while my friend didn't take any additional personal gratuitous pleasure from his carrier during our outings, he told me that his attitude concerning his submissives was rather like Checkmate Guy said in regard to his carriers who was kneeling in front of him after Checkmate Guy rode on his neck.
Since Checkmate guy and his carrier are gay and my friend and his carrier are gay, what they do is a private matter.
However, I can imagine my friend riding my Hypothetical Heterosexual slave to exhaustion and feeling that he could use him like his own slave. My Heterosexual male acquaintances would be very adverse to such contact and I might assume that my heterosexual slave would be as well.
I basically agree with You, as regards certain limitations that should be agreed upon, with or without a written contract, when it comes to sexual requests/demands from the rider...However, sex being almost everywhere in our activities, and especially in shoulder-rides, I think that these limitations should be expressed in a statement which would say "everything is allowed, except x... y...z....."
According to me, the list of exceptions should be a very short one. I could easily write it, but it would be against the rules of this forum ...
servusmulierum: I can see your point in regard to specifically ruling out certain liberties taken with a carrier that is another persons "property" and of course good manners should dictate that compliance to the owners rules should be in the spirit of those rules and not simply the letter.
But the contract is between the owner/rider and the slave/carrier and not with the person the owner might loan the slave to.
There is a certain feeling of ownership that someone feels when directing someone who is serving beneath them obediently as a beast of burden. I felt this sense of ownership while riding the shoulders of my friend's submissive while knowing that the submissive was gay and resentful of being my carrier. My friend encouraged me to use him just as he was using the submissive man that he was sitting on and I wouldn't abuse the spirit of my friends intentions.
Yet I admit I would have felt this sense of power over the carrier even without my friend's encouragement. I can imagine a situation where a rider who became excited and libidinous could feel that he(or she?) could just sit on an exhausted carrier and do whatever he wanted to do.
I know for example that most of my friends would obey my rules but several of them are quite dominant in their lifestyle and two, including the man who loaned me my carrier, could force their will and desires on someone of average size or smaller. Not that they would of course, I just mean that it's possible.
My point is that in a voluntary Mistress/slave situation, I would prefer to have boundaries and avoid complications.
If the mount is to small and the rider to big? What can I do for de rests?
tell me if you felt heavy sitting on someone ..?