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#1 2015-04-18 05:36:03

Audreyb
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Registered: 2014-09-29
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non-consensual riding?

When  I  was a  child  I  watched a group of  boys wrestling . It was  sort of a  childish  gang fight,  nothing  really serious  and apparently it was a case of  one group against another, about  10 boys in  total  were  involved. I  don't know what the rules were but it appeared that once a  loser had surrender ,the winner could get off  of  him  and help one of his team members  defeat  his opponent.
At the end  there were 3 of the  5  winners  sitting on the last loser,  forcing  him  to  surrender  while 2 winners  were  keeping the remaining  losers from escaping.

What was apparent  was that the losers were required to  give the winners  pony rides.
The  losers complied  for the most part,  with one having to be pushed and forced into the all  fours  position by  two  winners so one of the winners  could sit on his back.
The winners turned  the event into  a  race, pointing to  a  tree a short distance away that the losers  had to  circle while crawling,  each with a winner riding him  and return to  the  place  they started  from.   It was obvious from the start that winning the race was far less the  intention of  the winning  team  as was dominating  and humiliating the losers .Each of the  5  riders sat heavily on their respective carrier's  backs, clearly  enjoying the  discomfort of  the  boys beneath them.  Some of the riders were kicking the  flanks of their carriers while  other's were  bouncing and inhibiting their  carriers progress as  none seemed to care about winning the race  or dismounting   from  their suffering "ponies"

Having experienced   what amounts to  a  non-consensual shoulder ride from  a  reluctant carrier,  (though he was not actually  forced)  and having read some of the archived  posts concerning   carriers being forced, coerced and even  bullied  into the  position of  carrier,  I'm  curious about   such experiences   and  the  views  of those on  both  sides of  the subject.

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#2 2015-04-19 16:36:51

gunde
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Re: non-consensual riding?

ThankĀ“s for the story, but this forum is only about shoulder riding (the carrier must be standing on his feet). No pony riding on all fours allowed.

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#3 2015-04-20 14:40:54

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

I didn't  intend to break  any rules.  My  intention  was  to  lead  into cases of non-consensual carrier/rider  situations  in  general which  of course would  include shoulder  riding.
Unfortunately, I have  never  encountered  an incident where a completely nonconsensual shoulder  ride took place.   In  such  cases when  the  carrier submitted  to  carrying someone he didn't  want to, it was always a  case  of  coercion in  some form  rather  that not  having a  choice at all.

Primarily, I'm  curious  how  this  could be  done  and if  it  could be  done at  all.

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#4 2015-04-20 22:45:53

checkmateguy
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Re: non-consensual riding?

One thing I remember about my schooldays at boys' only schools was that when shoulder-riding took place in the playground (which was fairly frequent) boys would quickly divide into riders or carriers.

This would happen without any prior discussion or decision-making by the boys about who would be the riders and who would carry them.

It seems that the more dominant boys just grabbed boys who they thought would carry them and oddly enough they were right 100% of the time. It all seemed to be done on the basis of gut instinct and it worked. These shoulder-riding sessions were just play-fights, by the way. Typical high-spirited boys stuff.

But these chicken-fights didn't last long. Just three or four minutes after which there would be maybe two boys still sat on their carriers' shoulders after the other riders had either been knocked off or fell off.

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#5 2015-04-21 06:27:55

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

checkmateguy:

Yes,  that is about as  close to a  nonconsensual situation  as I could  see as being possible.
If a dominant boy or  person has the  power to intimidate or even bully the carrier into  complying ,perhaps with a threat of violence or other unpleasantness .

My curiosity stems from my own limited experience  that lead  to my opinion  that the  rider should be  in charge of/control of the  carrier.
Based on my experience and feelings,  when  sitting on  someone's shoulders ,  the  rider is in the more  vulnerable position vs the carrier.  The  rider  might  for example kick the  carrier  etc. but  all the  carry would be required to do to dislodge or hurt  the rider would  be to fall backward. This possibility occurred to me many times while  sitting on someone's shoulders. In those cases  I considered such a possibility as  unintentional of  course, but it would be  a rather  obvious  solution in  dislodging a  rider on purpose and  maliciously.

assuming my thinking on the subject is reasonable, The  rider would basically have to have establish dominance/intimidation of the carrier  before he  mounted.

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#6 2015-04-21 08:09:01

guero
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Certain forms of non-consensual shoulder rides exist for me simply because various women in my life know that I enjoy it.  My girlfriend as well as my sisters climb onto my shoulders or jump on them from behind whenever they need to reach something or are tired of walking.

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#7 2015-04-21 14:49:24

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

guero: 

I'm not sure  I  could consider  that  nonconsensual  in  that  you allow  the ladies  to use  you.  They simply  don't  bother  to  ask  permission. If  your sisters  threatened  to punish  you  for not allowing them  to sit on  your shoulders  it could be  nonconsensual.
Your  girlfriend  might  simply expect this service from  you  but  if  she   threatened to withhold  something  from  you  for  not complying,  I would see it as  coercion  rather than force  since  you  have a  choice and  are  not  subject  to  duress .
As in  the story I  previously  related concerning mounting  the shoulders of a  skinny  boy to participate in  a  chicken-fight. It was  peer pressure that resulted in his  compliance which I  would see as  coercion rather than force. I  didn't  threaten  him and I doubt he would have taken it  seriously  if I  had because  I'm  hardly  formidable.

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#8 2015-04-29 21:53:54

Misiulo
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Audrey, please check out my story: http://ultimateshoulderrides.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=12619

Although it is a difficulty, because I think it is almost impossible to ride someone completely and totally without his cooperation. I mean how do you even get on shoulders of somebody who opposes it. But there are different ways of extending control over other people's actions. Usually it seems to take place in the form of light female domination, where the carrier boy wants to show his strength and the riding girl is using her charisma to make him run longer and faster.


Let the Girl win Her spurs!

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#9 2015-05-12 14:51:29

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

I read  your  story and  I  can't say I ever  witnessed a  woman really forcing a  man  to  give her a piggyback  ride. I have coerced men into  carrying me  and watched other women  and men coerce and  intimidate/threaten  carriers into  compliance .  Simply  jumping on someone's back and making him  carry you is  certainly beyond  my power.  As a  child such things were  at least possible  when  girls  are sometimes stronger than boys,  but that is a very rare case with  adult women  and men.
If  I had  the  ability  to literally  force a  man to  carry me  against  his  will and  force his  cooperation,  I  wouldn't likely choose to be carried  piggyback.  It would be sitting on his shoulders  or  his back  or  cradled  in his arms  as I see  piggyback  as both uncomfortable  and undignified.

I have read fictional  accounts (generally fetish oriented) of things  like  shock  collars used  in  training  dogs  being  used  by  dominants  to force the  compliance of  unwilling victims.
Though such  situations are  almost  certainly  fictional in  all  but a  few  rare  and extreme cases,  in  imagining  the  possibilities , I can  only assume it would be  quite  advantageous  to someone who wanted  to  ride and wasn't  morally or  ethically  bound  by  convention.

Other than  that,  I  can only imagine that  in  cases of true  slavery where the master has the power of  life  and death  over  her/his  human property  that  true  nonconsensual riding/carrying would be possible.

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#10 2015-05-16 00:39:24

checkmateguy
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Slavery has made a big come back here in the UK, in England in particular and specifically in London where mainly foreign people have brought in their own slaves. There are a estimated 20,000 slaves in the UK although that's probably an under estimation.

The thing about slaves, of course, is that one person owns another person. The slave is the owner's property. We do have laws against cruelty here in the UK but the laws are usually mainly enforced where there is cruelty and ill-treatment of animals.

So if you're a slave owner in the UK and have a propensity for shoulder riding and decide to indulge that inclination by having rides on your slave's shoulders it would probably be allowed within the law, even if you ride the slave to exhaustion. If your slave is a domestic worker, or classed as such which most are, you wouldn't even need to pay your slave the UK's national minimum wage because the UK national minimum wage doesn't apply to domestic workers.

It seems that wealthy slave-owning people, both men and women, get to enjoy all the fun, if they like shoulder riding, of course. But if you do and you can afford to live somewhere like London and you've brought in one or more slaves to work in your household, then there seems no reason why you can't use your own property (the slave or slaves) as you wish, including ordering them to give you a shoulder ride. Maybe the members in the UK should import one or more slaves so that we can ride around on their shoulders when we feel the urge to do so? A human slave is a lot cheaper to keep fed and housed than a horse!

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#11 2015-05-19 16:44:59

Misiulo
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Audreyb wrote:

I have read fictional  accounts (generally fetish oriented) of things  like  shock  collars used  in  training  dogs  being  used  by  dominants  to force the  compliance of  unwilling victims. (...)

Unfortunately, I have  never  encountered  an incident where a completely nonconsensual shoulder  ride took place.   In  such  cases when  the  carrier submitted  to  carrying someone he didn't  want to, it was always a  case  of  coercion in  some form  rather  that not  having a  choice at all.

Primarily, I'm  curious  how  this  could be  done  and if  it  could be  done at  all.

I know of another way, but before I answer Your question, Audrey, do you think the Dog Collar could be efectively used to control the carrier?? It seems like the rider and the carrier would both be affected by the electric discharge smile


Let the Girl win Her spurs!

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#12 2015-06-23 15:30:10

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Misiulo

I know  a man  who  uses a shock collar to train his  bird dogs and the version he used had two places that gave the dog the electric shock. It  could only be felt on the inside and  there were settings so that the dogs behavior was only  corrected  by the amount of shock and it cold be increased  if the dog  didn't respond  to the lower setting. I  wet my fingers and couldn't  feel  the  shock  even at the highest setting.

I  assume  that if  a person was wearing such a collar on his  neck and I  was sitting on  his shoulders  I wouldn't be troubled  even if  I turned it  to the highest setting.
In considering  this, it occurred to  me that the collar  could be attached to a person's belt rather than his  neck  so  the  person sitting on him could shock  him  as  much as  he or she  wanted  without any  danger or  discomfort.

Since I have only  been carried by  people who  were either willing to  carry me or were  coerced, I can only imagine  using such a  devise  in  very limited circumstances  to  ensure the best performance  from a carrier who might  be less than  obedient out of laziness or  for some other reason.
I also suppose I  could use it to punish a carrier  or  correct  his behavior if his  walking  gait  caused me discomfort  such as  bouncing me  too much, but  I'm not really sure I  would.  The  most I  have ever had to  do  was to  slap or  kick him in the past,  so  at this point I'm  not  considering such  an arrangement .

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#13 2018-02-19 16:31:40

m2ichaela
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Audreyb,
Have you consider riding a man with cuffed hands?
If his hands are cuffed together infront, you can hold them down with your feet to prevent him from throw you off his shoulders. Is this cosidered as non-consensual riding?

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#14 2018-02-19 20:23:55

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

m2ichaela:

I would  only  consider it  nonconsensual if the carrier didn't want to  carry  me.
Forgive the obvious here,  but  if he liked  to be  handcuffed while he carried someone on his shoulders, his consent would be implied  a only become nonconsensual if  he  wanted  to  stop carrying me.   If  I remained  sitting on  his shoulders  when he  was no longer a willing  carrier, his restraints or how  I  positioned myself wouldn't  matter.

I don't  consider  coercion to  be  nonconsensual  since  the  carrier  has  a  motive  for  preforming.
Even if  you  were  to pay  someone to carry  you, he would be  trading  his services  for money.

It would  only be  nonconsensual if  he had  no  choice  and  barring  blackmail  or  actual slavery, I  can't  imagine how such  an  arrangement  would be  possible.

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#15 2018-02-20 22:00:41

m2ichaela
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Re: non-consensual riding?

AudreyB,

It so not obvious that the man wants to carry you handcuffed, or even carry you at all.
Let's assume that you cuff his hands during playful sex game, and then
jump on his shoulders and order him to carry you. If he refuse, you tighten your thighs around his neck, threaten to suffocate him. As his hands are tied, you hold them down with your feet so his can't release his neck from you grip. In this case, any reasonable man will prefer to carry you than to be suffocated. As he's completely under your control, you can force him to give you a shoulder riding until exhaustion.
Is this situation can be considered as non-consensual riding?

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#16 2018-02-21 02:58:22

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

m2ichaela:

OK, Yes,  if I threatened him  with death from  asphyxiation, it would certainly be  nonconsensual.
I suppose this  would even  be possible  since I have  used  handcuffs and other restraints during intimate  encounters  with the  consent of  my partner. I suppose if I put a  gun  to  his head and demanded that he  carry me on his shoulders or  I would shoot him  it would  also be nonconsensual.
In either case  I  would be committing a felony  which is something I hadn't considered. 
In  either case I   would see it as a  one time deal  and I can't imagine what my  motives  would be.

I read more into  your question than you  actually asked. I assumed that the  nonconsensual  carrier would be required to  carry me (or some  rider) more than one time, possible permanent  forced servitude.

But in  the real world, I have  coerced males into doing many things they didn't really want to  do by  various  means  and without restraints. This includes riding and/or sitting on his shoulders.  Male ego's are fragile  and their  libido is always a  vulnerable  target.

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#17 2018-02-21 08:51:02

m2ichaela
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Re: non-consensual riding?

AudreyB,
I have no intention of killing or hurting anyone, just playing power games for fun, so guns or any lethal weapon are out of the question. We don't want anyone to get hurt or injured during our games.
You can play a game with your partner:
he wins if he can throw you off his shoulders, and you win if you force him to carry you until exhaustion (down on his hands and knees).
This game can be played for several times. If the man wins easily, you can start adding restraints like cuffing his hands or using spurs. As you said, the male ego will keep him trying to beat you even when it get harder for him. At some point, he'll loose, and then you can force him to carry you as long as you wish.
You can keep teasing the man and tell him that you beat him, to encourage him to play with you again.
So this game is not a one-time shoulder riding, and also partially non-consensual.

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#18 2018-02-22 03:59:06

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

m2ichaela:

Since the  person entered the game out of his own free will  and understood the  consequences of loosing, I wouldn't see this as nonconsensual.

When I was carried on the shoulders of a man  who was obeying  my  friend who was my carrier's  master, his  consent was  based on his obedience to  his master and  his desire  not to be shunned by  him. Even my ex husband   who submitted to my demands  out of  his desire for intimacy with  me and  ultimately to  avoid  the inevitable  divorce  couldn't be said to be a nonconsensual partner .  At least  not  by  my definition ,  and I subjected him  to  many things much more distasteful to  him  than sitting on his shoulders.

As an adult, I  have only witnessed two men actually  ridden  to exhaustion in the hands and knees  position. One that  carried  six different people on his  back (separately  of course) and one who carried a woman  who is  about  one hundred  pounds heavier than he was. It was quite  amusing to  watch and I wondered what it would  be like  to push  a man that far. I  usually tire of  the  game  before things get to that point.

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#19 2018-02-22 07:53:42

m2ichaela
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Audreyb,
I've read in one of your posts that you rode on your ex husband shoulders until he was down on his hands and knees. Was he exhausted in this point?
When you squeezed his head with your thighs, you could have step hard on his hands to get total control on him, and keep sitting on his back until he falls down and lie on the ground. And then, by sitting on his head or face, you show your total superiority over him. 
Can you describe other things you did to your ex which are much more distasteful than sitting on his shoulders?

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#20 2018-02-22 20:19:01

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

m2ichaela:

My ex  wasn't exhausted from me  sitting on his back  that day.  He was  tired  from  carrying me on his shoulders and was on his hands and knees because I squeezed his  neck  when he made a point of  bouncing me around after I was already angry with him  for  bouncing  me that way  previously.

That  incident happen  before we  were  married. Once we  were married  I had  much more  control over him.  My ex  didn't  even like me sitting on  his lap ,  which was  why I tended to like being  on  top of him in a number of  ways.  Of course I sat on  his  face in  both  sexual  and  nonsexual  situations  and sitting on his head  was not at all uncommon. But  that is rather off topic on  this  forum I think.

I think it suffices to  say  that letting  my  friends,  both  male and female  play with him was the worse thing I  did  in  his  mind. He  is  very  homophobic  and also  has a  distaste  for overweight people. My gay male  friends enjoyed  tormenting him   and his dislike of heavy women specifically annoyed me because  my mother was always  very  large and I remember her  enduring  unkind remarks and verbal  abuse  because of it.  My  mother was the  most important person  in my life and my greatest influence.

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#21 2018-02-23 20:51:57

Alex
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Audrey,

can you please share that story about the man that was ridden to exhaustion by carrying six different people? I guess it will be most interesting to hear how all of those got together and met with that purpose in mind and especially hear how long he has lasted

Alex

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#22 2018-02-24 07:38:25

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Alex:

I  believe I  already shared that  incident . The  incident  was   at  my  home at  a  Halloween party   and  the  man  was  the  submissive  , dressed as  a "pony" when  he entered  while being  ridden by the  same  man who  became  one of my  closest  friends. That close friend is also  the one who took me on  my  first  outing that was  specifically about  shoulder  riding and loaned (?) me  a  reluctant  carrier.
The  pony-man  at  that  Halloween  party was not the same one who carried me on that  first ride .

The pony man was ordered to  remain on his hands and  knees and  other  guest just  naturally  took  to  sitting on  him and  also  riding him  after  my  friend invited a few of them  to do  so.

It was hard on  the man  who served as a pony  and sometimes a  chair  but it wasn't  really  sadistic. But people were  drinking of course and that  did slap  his  bottom to make him  crawl  faster and several  times  I saw two people sitting on his back while he was  stationary. 
It was  while he was  crawling with a guy  who was  dressed as a  caveman sitting on his back that he fell  and was all but  unconscious.   
I had asked my  friend  if  he should stop the  game   but  he was unconcerned and the  people involved in  playing with him  were enjoying their game.  It did become a little rude though  and when  the "caveman" got a little rough , sitting on the pony-man's chest after rolling him over,  I asked my  friend to  stop the game,  which he did.

At least 4 men  and 2 women  took  rides on  the  pony-man  that  night. Some for several minutes . I can't  say for  how long because I was busy  being a  hostess  much of the time. I can say that at least two people were larger  than the pony man including the  guy in the  caveman costume. I was invited  by my  friend to  sit on  the pony-man's  back  early on,  but I declined.   

The people  didn't simply come together for the purpose of riding him.  It was a party  and a lot of  my  friends and  their  friends have  attitudes  somewhat out of  the  mainstream. S/M,  B&D, gays, swingers etc.

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#23 2018-02-24 14:34:32

m2ichaela
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Audreyb,
I'm very interesting in how women can overpower strong  men by sitting on them.
Can you share your experiences of sitting on your ex? How did you convince him to be sat on? Did he refuse or struggle under you?
If you think this is off topic, we can chat by mail: n2uritl@hotmail.com

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#24 2018-02-24 21:20:15

Alex
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Audrey,

thanks, you told us about that party of yours with that pony-man and how your friend was riding when he entered but I didnt know there was so much more going on with the 'pony' for the rest of the night which seems to be really interesting.

I think it's completely remarkable for him to keep going until it was obviously lights out. Some may say carrying six different people during all of the night (with rests in between) is not a big deal - but it really is. From my own experience I can tell that some riders can get you exhausted quicker than others depending on their riding style, the way and where they sit on top, what they are using you for etc. Once you are exhausted and you are allowed to rest for a short period you can regain some strength but you cannot fully recover (until resting for several hours). You may go on for some more time but will have to rest again. That will repeat until your muscle metabolism converted nearly all energy into lactic acid and you are completely exhausted - or in extreme cases go unconscious like that pony on your party. Mostly I guess riders wouldnt want their mounts to be exhausted up to that level for obvious reasons (unconscious carriers arent of any use, avoiding serious injuries etc.) but in a setting on a halloween party with different riders and alcohol involved it may become difficult for him to watch after his ponies exhaustion levels.

It's good thing he was used as a chair in between (I always welcome that as a chance to rest) but having two people sitting on him at the same  he was probably running on his limits for a long time without his owner really noticing. By the way, I like how that friend of yours invited people for a ride on his pony - this really emphasizes the aspect of owning him. Pretty much like on a real horse - you just dont ride, you ask the owner first.

He was only temporarily unconscious I guess?

Alex

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#25 2018-02-25 06:35:04

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Alex:

I'm not  certain   about the  number or the sequence of  the  people riding or sitting on the  pony-man.
As I said   I was   hosting the  party and busy at times. I know at least 6  people rode  on his back  and  some mounted him as  soon as another  got off him. He  wasn't  a young man either and not muscular at all. Just an  average looking  middle aged  man with  thinning  hair.
The guy in the  caveman costume  probably  sat on  and rode on him more than once.
I had a  few problems with him at subsequent parties after that  and  finally stopped inviting him.
I usually don't interfere with my  guests but  he is something of a  bully and the pony-man was nearly unconscious when he plopped his fat  butt on his chest. That's when I asked my friend to stop the  game.

It was my friend's  control over  his  human-horse that I found interesting  and why I talked to  him during much of the party. I don't normally occupy the time of a  one  guest  or monopolize  a gay  man's time  at a party ,  but  he turned out to be very interesting as a person  and is now one of  my  closest friends.

Normally I wouldn't want to  ride on someone to the point of  total exhaustion  whether I was sitting on his shoulders  or  his back.  He could be injured or even  die  and as you said,  he would be useless if he couldn't carry  me any longer.

However I am intrigued  by the idea.  My friend and neighbor that I mentioned previously did ride her submissive  boyfriend, sitting on  his  back until  he quite literally fell beneath her and couldn't move at all. He fell under her so fast that she was shocked . Of course  the wind was  knocked out of him too  and she was angry  for a moment.
She said it wasn't the first time and  that he would be OK  in a few  minutes or so.
But  she weighs at least twice as much as I  do and is much heavier than  the man she was on.
I would have to  be much  bigger  and find a carrier who was really  puny  to  experience this  unless I was willing to stay on  someone for a very long time  and of course he was willing to  keep  crawling  that long.

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#26 2018-02-25 06:54:43

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

m2ichaela:

The  short answer is that I  can't. 
I couldn't wrestle my ex down or keep him  there  by  just sitting on him unless I could magically gain 300 pounds and was stronger than him.  I  taught him  to  obey  and he  learned to  endure.  He is stronger than  most  guys  and even  an  average  man  should be able to  take a woman's weight  regardless of where she sits on him.

I didn't keep  him  down with my weight. He wasn't squashed by  me when I  sat on him but  it was a punishment  because he  didn't like being sat  on.

And at the risk of going off topic, one trick a  friend taught me  is  to press your fingers behind the joint of the  jawbone below a  man's ear. There is a  nerve there that will  make  him  weak and unable to  fight you off. It  worked for  me several times and I saw it work  for  other people.

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#27 2018-02-25 10:16:08

m2ichaela
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Audreyb,.
I'm curious to know why did your ex husband allow you to sit on him if he didn't like ir. Did he ask you to get off him, or even ask you not to sit on him at all?
As for the pressing point:
I didn't hear about it, but I think that pressing your fingers into the man's eyes can be used to overpower him.

Last edited by m2ichaela (2018-02-25 12:38:19)

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#28 2018-02-26 02:55:24

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

m2ichaela:

By the time I agreed to marry him, my (now)  ex-husband agreed to  obey me  in  virtually all matters.
I worked very hard  on making him submissive to me for well over a year before  I  married him  and continued  after  we  married.   I had  his property in my  name and a  prenuptial agreement  that was very much in my  favor and quite  binding.

I think  there were  aspects of surrendering power to me  that he secretly enjoyed.
He did  rebel  several times and I kicked him  out many  times.  He always  came crawling  back. He was probably as much addicted to me as in  love.

For my part ,  he started  as a  challenge and I wasn't  at all sure how far  I would take things.
He  is  really rather intelligent but  I found  the  chinks in  his armor that I could exploit and  manipulate . Sometimes it was tedious and other times it was  fun. 
Needless to  say,  I couldn't care less if he asked me to  not sit on him or anything else.
Withholding  sex and  even  contact was  his punishment for refusing anything I  put him  to.

Now I think  we have gone off  topic as much as the  moderators will  allow.

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#29 2018-02-28 03:02:36

Dragon
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Re: non-consensual riding?

m2ichaela

There is other way you can make a guy to carry you. In a swimming pool, you can ask him to let you ride on his shoulders and ride him until he wants to stop, then you can tighten your thighs around his neck and sink his head under the water to make him continue. This can only works if the water level is high enough near to his chin and of course, you could make this just one time, because the next time he maybe would not let you ride him... I know, this happened to me years ago, but it was a playful game... I can not tell details, I was a teenager in that time... I just wanted to share the idea...

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#30 2018-02-28 03:05:27

Dragon
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Ms Audrey

Probably it is almost impossible to ride someone without his cooperation. I would make a move named electric chair to release myself. Of course I would never make this move if a female rider were riding me (even if she were wearing spurs)...
Why are you interesed in non-consensual riding?

By the way this is the electric chair drop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGVucBbJfuc (New Window)

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#31 2018-02-28 05:35:52

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Dragon:

I'm  just interested in the subject of  nonconsensual shoulder riding  etc.
I'm  just intrigued by the power aspect of  someone sitting on  another's shoulders and being carried   just  as one would ride a horse or other  beast of  burden who has no  choice of who rides him or  how long the ride may  be.
I'm not at all certain I  would take advantage of such a situation in all  circumstances,  but the concept is interesting.   
I have  some  conflict of course  because while the  idea  is  intriguing, I  also have strong  feelings in opposition to  human  slavery.   I'm  also  curious  about other peoples views on the subject  which  also might  conflict. Feelings  vs  morality  etc.

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#32 2018-02-28 09:55:11

m2ichaela
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Audreyb/Dragon,
Read this story:
www.thevalkyrie.com/stories/1misc6/kath319.txt (New Window)
Although it's more back riding than shoulder riding, the girl in the story use reins and spurs to control unwilling strong guy.
Is this realistic story? Can it be adjusted to shoulder riding?
Dragon - would you throw off a girl that threaten to hurt your balls with her spurs?

Last edited by m2ichaela (2018-02-28 23:51:46)

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#33 2018-03-01 04:51:50

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

m2ichaela:

Realistic or  not, I have met more than  a few jerks who behaved like  the  "Blake"  character.
His  language  might be a bit  over the top  for reality  but his  attitude is  realistic enough.

As for  adapting it to shoulder riding, I think that  to really accomplish such a  scene,  the girl would need  more than  spurs and a  halter. perhaps a  cord tied around his scrotum as a threat with the other end in her hand .In my experience, males  fear  castration more than  anything and even the threat of becoming a  gelding  would prevent  him  from  trying to  unseat her whether she was sitting on  his shoulders or his back.
I have never used spurs on  a man   but I did wear them  a few  times. Just to  feel  sexy  and dangerous.  It was a game rather than  real  domination those times so I jabbed   the mans ribs a little  but  not enough to really hurt  him. I think in  that  girls  case,  with  a  rapist  like  the  Blake  guy, I would have raked the  spurs like I would on an unruly horse when  you have  to  show him  who's boss. 
I can't imagine wanting to put a  saddle on  a  man however.   If  I  sit on  a man I want to  sit on  him,  not a  piece of  leather.

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#34 2018-03-05 13:42:35

stalot
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Hi m2ichaela,
i am a willing-to-suffer ponyboy, long time group member here.
I am strong built, like to give you shoulder rides handcuffed or or being otherwised restrained. I love power games, being on the suffering side
Can travel...
Are you interested?
stalot@yahoo.com

thanks, wist best to all of us

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#35 2018-03-06 03:05:07

Dragon
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Re: non-consensual riding?

m2ichaela

About your question if I would throw off a girl that threaten to hurt my balls with her spurs? well, it is a difficult question because there is a conflict... I would never hurt a Girl, even if she were riding me like the Girl in the story does with that guy. I would be nice to her and if she threatens to hurt my testicles, I would ask her please not to do it, I would prefer to give her a ride than trying to throw her off.

Because I would not want to be hurt and I would not like to hurt her. But if there was not option, I should defend myself. My teacher said we shall never use fight skills to hurt persons. But he said if someone puts a knife on your troath and threaten to slice it, there is not another option and you shall fight for your life. There are some vulnerable spots on the human body and if someone tries to hurt you on those spots, there is not a game, this person is trying to kill you and you should fight back.
In the all fours position with an enemy on your back, I know two or three ways to escape and throw the enemy. I could grab his/her feet and I know a lock to break the enemy's ankle. But again, I would not like to hurt a Girl, especially if she were a beautiful one, dominant and a little violent like the Girl of the story. She is like the kind of Riding Mistress most carriers love.
I like the riding style of this Girl Br'er Rabbit. Maybe a rabbit can rides a fox, but can not ride a snake.

I was never interesed in carry Girls in all fours, (Although once, I made push ups with a
girl sitting on my back) but this story is interesting and make me feel curious about it...

It is difficult to find a female rider for shoulder riding, I guess is more difficult to find a female rider like the girl of the story...

Where is the second part?

And what happen to Br'er Rabbit and the fox?

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#36 2018-03-06 03:28:14

Dragon
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Ms Audreyb

About the idea of adapting the riding items of the story to shoulder riding, and that the girl would need besides her spurs and a halter a cord tied around the scrotum of the guy as a threat with the other end in her hand, it sounds like an evil idea, but more realistic to control the guy. It would hurts like hell! If I were in that situation, it would be more difficult to escape from. It would prevent me from trying to throw off or unseat her whether she was sitting on my shoulders or back. A little yank would be painful, I would prefer to give her a ride than feel pain. Besides, I would not want to hurt a Girl who were riding me. But, if it were an enemy, I can think on some moves to escape... it would be a big risk, only if there was not another way out. I do not want to be castrated, of course, but if there was not other option, I would fight. I can fear the threat of castration, but the shame of a defeat is a bad fate too...   

I could do the electric chari driver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P821--9CWZo (New Window)
Or maybe it would not works...

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#37 2018-03-06 04:46:40

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Dragon:

In the  hypothetical, I  imagine that  were  I sitting on  your  shoulders as in that  wrestling clip, and had that cord secured on your  scrotum, such a fall would almost certainly result in you being castrated.

In  trying to  imagine such a  position I think that when I felt myself falling I would instinctively pull the  cord tighter rather than letting  go of it. I  also  can't imagine allowing myself to fall  forward like the  wrestler did there even if  the  man I was sitting on held my legs in place. I  know that  these  professional  wrestlers  rehearse these scenes so the results go  as  expected, but having been on the shoulders of boys who fell both  forward and backward during  chicken fights, I was never  unseated during  the actual fall,  which was usually in  shallow water. Obviously I had no  intention of  hurting the boy beneath me and he wasn't trying to  hurt  me but I  instinctively held onto his head,  hair or ears to avoid  falling.

All of this is purely academic  and I have no  desire to  create a  eunuch , but rather to defend my general opinion  that taking  advantage of the vulnerability of the male scrotum  would be a consideration in  the control of the rider in  regard to the question asked.

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#38 2018-03-06 13:14:55

m2ichaela
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Audreyb,
When you fell backward or forward during chicken fight in the water - if you were still sitting on the guy's shoulders  then you could drown him underwater using your thighs. This could be a punishment for a guy that loose a chicken fight match, or a threat to encourage him to keep fighting. By drowning I don't mean to hurt or kill anyone, but just abusing the guy to get control over him.I assume that after several chicken fight and drowning  turns, he will become too weak to throw you off
Another idea that come to my mind is shoulder riding in deep water, where the guy must move his legs and arms to prevent him from drowning. Could you ride a guy's shoulders in deep water against his will? Is this an advantage for the rider comparing to shallow water?.

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#39 2018-03-07 04:52:05

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

m2ichaela:

I think in the matter of drowning  my carrier, it would depend  very much on the size and strength of  the carrier.  I imagine that if I had such intentions , it would be easier in water that was less than three feet  deep , perhaps two feet deep  would be optimal.   In that  depth the water wouldn't be supporting my  weight when I was sitting on him so I  would be putting  more of my weight on him to keep  his head under the water.
He might find enough footing  under the water  to fight me off of course but that might  not be possible in the soft wet sand near  the shore at the beach, particularly with me sitting on his neck and upper  back.
Even  then I would have to hold onto his head somehow unless he was very small or weak .
It's unlikely I  could just sit on him until    I drowned him.

I think if I  was sitting on someone's shoulders in deeper water.  Where  his head was close to  being under water, he  could  likely  unseat me by ducking under  the water and carrying me down with him.
Then even if I managed to grip  his neck with my thighs it would be  a question of  which of us could hold his/her breath  the longest. If  he was reasonably strong,  he might also  pry my wet  thighs from around his neck and escape completely  because I think  most  people would become stronger when  they are fighting in  panic  to  get  air.

Since I'm not  normally  homicidal,  this question is  purely hypothetical of  course and I have rarely  gotten  angry with my  carrier for losing a  chicken  fight. The only exception to this was when I was a teenager  and at the beach without  my  boyfriend.  I wanted to  participate in  the  fun  and the only  boy available was skinny and  kind of a  nerd. He didn't really want to  but I insisted and  the other guys  used  peer pressure  to  force him  into the  game. His shoulders were bony and narrow and I  could hardly sit on them and he needed help  to stand upright with  me on his shoulders.
I did  my  best to win  but before I managed to pull a girl off  her boyfriends shoulders  my skinny  carrier fell forward  and took us  out of the  game.  It was  on land rather than in the water and he fell on his face with  me still on top of him. I wasn't hurt  but the shock of falling  like that frightened me and that made me  angry. I slapped his  head before I  got off of  him. At  that  moment, if  he had been face down in shallow water rather than  in the sand, I  might have considered sitting on his back longer and drowning him  a little.

In regard to the deep  water  thing, I can't  imagine how I  might find  myself sitting on a  guys shoulders in deep water  if he didn't willingly carry me there.

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#40 2018-03-25 03:11:40

Dragon
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Last visit: 2018-09-22
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Audreyb

In the hypothetical, I imagine that you were sitting on my shoulders, and had a cord secured on my scrotum, like I said before, if I were in that situation, it would be more
difficult to escape from. It would prevent me from trying to throw off or unseat you if you were sitting on my shoulders. And more difficult if you use riding tools like in that story (spurs and... halters?). I would prefer to give you or my rider, a ride than feel pain or be injured. If I tried to escape from that position I think that when I tried to throw my enemy, he would let the cord go or I could grab the cord to avoid hurt. But you said that if you felt yourself falling you would instinctively pull the  cord tighter rather than letting go of it. It would result in a really painful and dangerous situation. You said that having been on the shoulders of boys who fell both forward and backward during chicken fights, you was never  unseated during the actual fall... you are a good rider Audreyb, with good balance... probably the electric chair drop would works to escape from an enemy on my shoulders, but probably not if you were the rider and use this cord and riding tools... I will think in other way to escape...

Of course this is hypothetical, if you were riding on my shoulders I would not throw you
off, you are a gentle person.

I read about your idea of electric dog shock collar for the control of the carriers.
It looks like a more gentle way for a female rider to control her carrier than that cord
and not very dangerous.

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#41 2018-03-25 05:33:04

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Dragon:

Clearly in the  hypothetical, an electric  shock  collar would serve , at least until the  burden of the carrier became more  oppressive than  the potential pain of  the  electric shock.

The collar  would probably work  to direct  compliance from  the  carrier,  but  I must imagine that the carrier would  rather endure the pain  rather than die of exhaustion.

Likewise, I  doubt that even if the shock collar worked in  water (I have no  idea in this regard)  the desperate  need  to  breathe would take precedence  and only the weight of  the person  sitting on him  could  keep the carrier's/victim's  head submerged.
In that instance of remaining  on top of my carrier with his face under water,  the period I sat on him was  quite brief  as I  had no  intention of drowning him.

I am  aware of a person's violent struggles to  breathe however,  from  other incidence involving smothering rather than  drowning. In one case  I was the victim  myself, quite  voluntarily in an experiment with a  friend.

But in  a case of actual suffocation in  a homicide, I gleaned the  details of a murder from several people in  authority several  years ago, involving a home invasion that resulted in the death of a very old man who was  murdered by two young burglars.

The  elderly  victim was attacked in  his bed and suffocated with his  own  pillow.
Since  pillows are  porous  and very inefficient for  this purpose, the  forensic evidence  proved  that
one attacker sat on  the pillow over the  victim's face and  the second sat  on his chest to  restrain  him. This was indicated  by the  pressure marks of the  pillowcase on the victims face  and the impression of one of the  buttons  of  his  pajamas  pressing on  the  victim's breast bone which even proved that the person sitting on his chest was sitting sideways rather than  astride  and they  had  sat on him for  over ten  minutes .  The victim  who  was  into  his  80's and weighed 130 pounds struggled  hard enough to break his finger nails and bruise his own skin with  the seams of his pajamas while the two  younger and heavier men  sat on him.

As  cruel as this information was, it demonstrated the desperation of  the panic struggles of a  person desperate  to  breathe. Since  it would take  only 5  minutes of  oxygen deprivation to insure death.
The victim  would have apparently fought for every bit of air while he was  dying.

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#42 2018-03-28 04:12:43

Dragon
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Ms Audreyb

I have never been in a situation where I was carrying a girl and wearing an electric shock collar. But I guess it would not be so bad. But you are rigth, when you said that the carrier would rather endure the pain of the electric shock rather than die of exhaustion. I do not know, but probably a female rider would not shock her carrier if he can not walk more. Or am I wrong?

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#43 2018-03-28 04:35:11

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Dragon:

I certainly wouldn't continue to shock a  carrier  after the point of  exhaustion.
Even if I take  the issue of  empathy out of the picture, crippling or  killing the carrier would be quite impractical. Going to  the  extreme  of such  a situation, in  considering  the carrier as nothing more than  a beast of  burden, I would at the  very least   want  him  to be able to carry me  back  to whatever  destination    that was  my  goal.
I think  any  rational  rider would have to  consider  that  factor.

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#44 2018-04-10 03:32:53

Dragon
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Ms Audreyb

I do not know if you would feel empathy for your carrier or if you would ride him until the point of exhaustion.
Surely you would ride him until that point of exhaustion just to know how strong your carrier is. Yes, you are right that it would be impractical if he can not to carry you back to whatever destination you wanted go... I like your attitude, a female rider being selfish and only worried by her own comfort... What if you had two carriers?
Would you ride one until or beyond the point of exhaustion knowing that you can ride the other one to carry you back to your destination?

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#45 2018-04-14 03:17:04

Audreyb
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Re: non-consensual riding?

Dragon:

I believe that any rider should be  concerned about  her or his own comfort and enjoyment.
To do otherwise in recreational  shoulder riding reduces  the experience of the activity and  makes it  pointless.

But  in the scenario  you suggested in this  topic, the  nonconsensual riding  would require an  actual master/slave  relationship.
If I imagine such an  arrangement  and it were  possible and legal  to literally  own a  carrier  who  by definition  would have  no choice in the matter at all, I  might imagine pushing  him  to  the limits of  his abilities to extend  his  endurance or possibly as a  punishment for some  offense or  failure on his part.

In that  this  is  hypothetical and I can discount  empathy  for the sake of discussion, it would  probably be  practical to  have a  second carrier along to provide  transportation back  to my destination.
Based on my experience, even allowing a reasonable rest period  would not be adequate to insure my (the riders) safety and comfort while sitting on  a carrier who  has previously reached the point of exhaustion.

I must  imagine  that as  the owner of an  actual slave, I would treat them much the same as I do my employees in that I would expect them  to perform the take  they were  hired or (in this case) purchased to  perform. Needless to  say  I  don't hire  people to carry me of  course. But  I must assume that in  a world where a man might be considered property and a  beast of  burden,  I would see things differently than I do in  our current convention.

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#46 2018-04-18 02:23:34

Dragon
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Re: non-consensual riding?

MsAudreyb

Probably many guys who like to carry Ladies on shoulders would enjoy a situation where they carried a Lady to the point of exhaustion. I myself can imagine a situation like this, where if I were a slave, I had to carry a Mistress on shoulders. It sounds like fun, but as you said Audreyb, a nonconsensual riding would require an actual master (or in this case, Mistress)/slave relationship. I guess that sooner or later, when I (or a carrier) had to deal with tiredness it would not be fun or enjoyable... specially if the Mistress had not any empathy for her slave and she were trying to make him carry her to reach his limits.
I imagine if like in the example you have mentioned, a Mistress were pushing me to the limit of my strenght to extend my endurance, I guess she would not wanted to hurt me very much or I would be useless for her future rides. But I guess she would not be really nice too... however, maybe it would be better for a slave to carry a Lady on shoulders than work in a mine...
Ms Audreyb, when you said that in a world where a man might be considered property and a beast of burden, you would see things differently than you do in our world where slavery is not legal... does it means that you would be cruel with your carriers, or would you be gentle with them?

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#47 2018-04-18 12:45:59

stalot
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Posts: 118

Re: non-consensual riding?

Audreyb,
the scenario you described is my ultimate fantasy. Being a beast of burden for sale, being used the way the rides desires, being punished the way the rider desires., being used to my limits and even further.
I have been looking for such an opportunity, anywhere in the world.
Unfortunately so far i haven't found any.
stalot@yahoo.com

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#48 2018-04-21 04:31:50

Audreyb
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Registered: 2014-09-29
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Posts: 325

Re: non-consensual riding?

Dragon:

I would be neither cruel or  kind in  regard to a slave.  I'm a practical woman  and I can only imagine that  I would treat a slave  much as I would my employees in  regard to the work I acquire them  to perform. 
Since the subject here is riding/carrying,  I would use whatever incentive was required to have a slave perform his duties to my satisfaction.  If this required  physical punishment  to ensure  satisfactory performance, I would  be inclined to  use whatever was  necessary and practical.

With a  hired employee, my  options would of course  be dismissal   which would end the contract.
However,  since I  would  physically own  the slave and be permanently invested in his  performance, dismissal  wouldn't be an option and I imagine I  would have to take  whatever steps were required  to force the slave to  comply.

This  might also require pushing  and extending his  limits of endurance as well  as ensuring  my  comfort  by  his positioning and walking gait  from the  moment that I  sat on him. This would be  very  much the same as any other  beast of  burden I put to  this task.
I would also require a slave/carrier to perform under  anyone I designated to  ride him  and  obey the  person sitting on him regardless of who that person  was. The  slaves feeling, willingness or desires would not matter anymore than that of any other  beast of  burdens  would.
If the slave were properly trained  and performed as required,  there would be  no need to  be  cruel   and in  fact impractical to do anything that  might  damage him or  impede his future performance .

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#49 2018-04-22 07:10:48

ezpony
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Last visit: 2018-10-07
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Re: non-consensual riding?

I think there is always a grey zone between consensual/non-consensual in a rider/carrier or master/slave relationship.

I was once the slave in a relationship with a dominant woman who enjoyed shoulder riding and even though I liked these kinds of games I would more often than not be pushed outside of my comfort zone by her. There was an unspoken agreement that I had to obey her without question and breaking this agreement would come at a potentially high cost. Thus she would often ride me to exhaustion and as our relationship progressed she brought spurs and whips into the game making some of the rides quite painful for me.

I wouldn't say that the riding was not consensual but I certainly had to endure a lot to keep my Mistress happy. No complaints from me though. I was really lucky to have her as my Mistress :-).

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#50 2018-04-23 04:38:40

Audreyb
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Posts: 325

Re: non-consensual riding?

ezpony:

I agree with your assessment in that consensual riding/carrying may,  and often  does  imply a  nonconsensual  aspect. 
A person bearing the weight of  another person while taking direction  from the person sitting on him can't logically be seen  any other way regardless of the arrangement that  brought  this  about.

I  imagine a carrier  could lift a  no consenting person onto his shoulders and carry her/him  against  their wishes, though I would see this action  as quite impractical  and  more of a momentary game.
I might also imagine that the roles,  regarding who is dominating who  might easily be  reversed  since the person being carried is already sitting upon the  carrier and has  him  in a  vulnerable  position.

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