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When I was a child I watched a group of boys wrestling . It was sort of a childish gang fight, nothing really serious and apparently it was a case of one group against another, about 10 boys in total were involved. I don't know what the rules were but it appeared that once a loser had surrender ,the winner could get off of him and help one of his team members defeat his opponent.
At the end there were 3 of the 5 winners sitting on the last loser, forcing him to surrender while 2 winners were keeping the remaining losers from escaping.
What was apparent was that the losers were required to give the winners pony rides.
The losers complied for the most part, with one having to be pushed and forced into the all fours position by two winners so one of the winners could sit on his back.
The winners turned the event into a race, pointing to a tree a short distance away that the losers had to circle while crawling, each with a winner riding him and return to the place they started from. It was obvious from the start that winning the race was far less the intention of the winning team as was dominating and humiliating the losers .Each of the 5 riders sat heavily on their respective carrier's backs, clearly enjoying the discomfort of the boys beneath them. Some of the riders were kicking the flanks of their carriers while other's were bouncing and inhibiting their carriers progress as none seemed to care about winning the race or dismounting from their suffering "ponies"
Having experienced what amounts to a non-consensual shoulder ride from a reluctant carrier, (though he was not actually forced) and having read some of the archived posts concerning carriers being forced, coerced and even bullied into the position of carrier, I'm curious about such experiences and the views of those on both sides of the subject.
Thank´s for the story, but this forum is only about shoulder riding (the carrier must be standing on his feet). No pony riding on all fours allowed.
I didn't intend to break any rules. My intention was to lead into cases of non-consensual carrier/rider situations in general which of course would include shoulder riding.
Unfortunately, I have never encountered an incident where a completely nonconsensual shoulder ride took place. In such cases when the carrier submitted to carrying someone he didn't want to, it was always a case of coercion in some form rather that not having a choice at all.
Primarily, I'm curious how this could be done and if it could be done at all.
One thing I remember about my schooldays at boys' only schools was that when shoulder-riding took place in the playground (which was fairly frequent) boys would quickly divide into riders or carriers.
This would happen without any prior discussion or decision-making by the boys about who would be the riders and who would carry them.
It seems that the more dominant boys just grabbed boys who they thought would carry them and oddly enough they were right 100% of the time. It all seemed to be done on the basis of gut instinct and it worked. These shoulder-riding sessions were just play-fights, by the way. Typical high-spirited boys stuff.
But these chicken-fights didn't last long. Just three or four minutes after which there would be maybe two boys still sat on their carriers' shoulders after the other riders had either been knocked off or fell off.
Yes, that is about as close to a nonconsensual situation as I could see as being possible.
If a dominant boy or person has the power to intimidate or even bully the carrier into complying ,perhaps with a threat of violence or other unpleasantness .
My curiosity stems from my own limited experience that lead to my opinion that the rider should be in charge of/control of the carrier.
Based on my experience and feelings, when sitting on someone's shoulders , the rider is in the more vulnerable position vs the carrier. The rider might for example kick the carrier etc. but all the carry would be required to do to dislodge or hurt the rider would be to fall backward. This possibility occurred to me many times while sitting on someone's shoulders. In those cases I considered such a possibility as unintentional of course, but it would be a rather obvious solution in dislodging a rider on purpose and maliciously.
assuming my thinking on the subject is reasonable, The rider would basically have to have establish dominance/intimidation of the carrier before he mounted.
Certain forms of non-consensual shoulder rides exist for me simply because various women in my life know that I enjoy it. My girlfriend as well as my sisters climb onto my shoulders or jump on them from behind whenever they need to reach something or are tired of walking.
I'm not sure I could consider that nonconsensual in that you allow the ladies to use you. They simply don't bother to ask permission. If your sisters threatened to punish you for not allowing them to sit on your shoulders it could be nonconsensual.
Your girlfriend might simply expect this service from you but if she threatened to withhold something from you for not complying, I would see it as coercion rather than force since you have a choice and are not subject to duress .
As in the story I previously related concerning mounting the shoulders of a skinny boy to participate in a chicken-fight. It was peer pressure that resulted in his compliance which I would see as coercion rather than force. I didn't threaten him and I doubt he would have taken it seriously if I had because I'm hardly formidable.
Audrey, please check out my story: http://ultimateshoulderrides.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=12619
Although it is a difficulty, because I think it is almost impossible to ride someone completely and totally without his cooperation. I mean how do you even get on shoulders of somebody who opposes it. But there are different ways of extending control over other people's actions. Usually it seems to take place in the form of light female domination, where the carrier boy wants to show his strength and the riding girl is using her charisma to make him run longer and faster.
I read your story and I can't say I ever witnessed a woman really forcing a man to give her a piggyback ride. I have coerced men into carrying me and watched other women and men coerce and intimidate/threaten carriers into compliance . Simply jumping on someone's back and making him carry you is certainly beyond my power. As a child such things were at least possible when girls are sometimes stronger than boys, but that is a very rare case with adult women and men.
If I had the ability to literally force a man to carry me against his will and force his cooperation, I wouldn't likely choose to be carried piggyback. It would be sitting on his shoulders or his back or cradled in his arms as I see piggyback as both uncomfortable and undignified.
I have read fictional accounts (generally fetish oriented) of things like shock collars used in training dogs being used by dominants to force the compliance of unwilling victims.
Though such situations are almost certainly fictional in all but a few rare and extreme cases, in imagining the possibilities , I can only assume it would be quite advantageous to someone who wanted to ride and wasn't morally or ethically bound by convention.
Other than that, I can only imagine that in cases of true slavery where the master has the power of life and death over her/his human property that true nonconsensual riding/carrying would be possible.
Slavery has made a big come back here in the UK, in England in particular and specifically in London where mainly foreign people have brought in their own slaves. There are a estimated 20,000 slaves in the UK although that's probably an under estimation.
The thing about slaves, of course, is that one person owns another person. The slave is the owner's property. We do have laws against cruelty here in the UK but the laws are usually mainly enforced where there is cruelty and ill-treatment of animals.
So if you're a slave owner in the UK and have a propensity for shoulder riding and decide to indulge that inclination by having rides on your slave's shoulders it would probably be allowed within the law, even if you ride the slave to exhaustion. If your slave is a domestic worker, or classed as such which most are, you wouldn't even need to pay your slave the UK's national minimum wage because the UK national minimum wage doesn't apply to domestic workers.
It seems that wealthy slave-owning people, both men and women, get to enjoy all the fun, if they like shoulder riding, of course. But if you do and you can afford to live somewhere like London and you've brought in one or more slaves to work in your household, then there seems no reason why you can't use your own property (the slave or slaves) as you wish, including ordering them to give you a shoulder ride. Maybe the members in the UK should import one or more slaves so that we can ride around on their shoulders when we feel the urge to do so? A human slave is a lot cheaper to keep fed and housed than a horse!
I have read fictional accounts (generally fetish oriented) of things like shock collars used in training dogs being used by dominants to force the compliance of unwilling victims. (...)
Unfortunately, I have never encountered an incident where a completely nonconsensual shoulder ride took place. In such cases when the carrier submitted to carrying someone he didn't want to, it was always a case of coercion in some form rather that not having a choice at all.
Primarily, I'm curious how this could be done and if it could be done at all.
I know of another way, but before I answer Your question, Audrey, do you think the Dog Collar could be efectively used to control the carrier?? It seems like the rider and the carrier would both be affected by the electric discharge
I know a man who uses a shock collar to train his bird dogs and the version he used had two places that gave the dog the electric shock. It could only be felt on the inside and there were settings so that the dogs behavior was only corrected by the amount of shock and it cold be increased if the dog didn't respond to the lower setting. I wet my fingers and couldn't feel the shock even at the highest setting.
I assume that if a person was wearing such a collar on his neck and I was sitting on his shoulders I wouldn't be troubled even if I turned it to the highest setting.
In considering this, it occurred to me that the collar could be attached to a person's belt rather than his neck so the person sitting on him could shock him as much as he or she wanted without any danger or discomfort.
Since I have only been carried by people who were either willing to carry me or were coerced, I can only imagine using such a devise in very limited circumstances to ensure the best performance from a carrier who might be less than obedient out of laziness or for some other reason.
I also suppose I could use it to punish a carrier or correct his behavior if his walking gait caused me discomfort such as bouncing me too much, but I'm not really sure I would. The most I have ever had to do was to slap or kick him in the past, so at this point I'm not considering such an arrangement .
Have you consider riding a man with cuffed hands?
If his hands are cuffed together infront, you can hold them down with your feet to prevent him from throw you off his shoulders. Is this cosidered as non-consensual riding?
I would only consider it nonconsensual if the carrier didn't want to carry me.
Forgive the obvious here, but if he liked to be handcuffed while he carried someone on his shoulders, his consent would be implied a only become nonconsensual if he wanted to stop carrying me. If I remained sitting on his shoulders when he was no longer a willing carrier, his restraints or how I positioned myself wouldn't matter.
I don't consider coercion to be nonconsensual since the carrier has a motive for preforming.
Even if you were to pay someone to carry you, he would be trading his services for money.
It would only be nonconsensual if he had no choice and barring blackmail or actual slavery, I can't imagine how such an arrangement would be possible.
It so not obvious that the man wants to carry you handcuffed, or even carry you at all.
Let's assume that you cuff his hands during playful sex game, and then
jump on his shoulders and order him to carry you. If he refuse, you tighten your thighs around his neck, threaten to suffocate him. As his hands are tied, you hold them down with your feet so his can't release his neck from you grip. In this case, any reasonable man will prefer to carry you than to be suffocated. As he's completely under your control, you can force him to give you a shoulder riding until exhaustion.
Is this situation can be considered as non-consensual riding?
OK, Yes, if I threatened him with death from asphyxiation, it would certainly be nonconsensual.
I suppose this would even be possible since I have used handcuffs and other restraints during intimate encounters with the consent of my partner. I suppose if I put a gun to his head and demanded that he carry me on his shoulders or I would shoot him it would also be nonconsensual.
In either case I would be committing a felony which is something I hadn't considered.
In either case I would see it as a one time deal and I can't imagine what my motives would be.
I read more into your question than you actually asked. I assumed that the nonconsensual carrier would be required to carry me (or some rider) more than one time, possible permanent forced servitude.
But in the real world, I have coerced males into doing many things they didn't really want to do by various means and without restraints. This includes riding and/or sitting on his shoulders. Male ego's are fragile and their libido is always a vulnerable target.
I have no intention of killing or hurting anyone, just playing power games for fun, so guns or any lethal weapon are out of the question. We don't want anyone to get hurt or injured during our games.
You can play a game with your partner:
he wins if he can throw you off his shoulders, and you win if you force him to carry you until exhaustion (down on his hands and knees).
This game can be played for several times. If the man wins easily, you can start adding restraints like cuffing his hands or using spurs. As you said, the male ego will keep him trying to beat you even when it get harder for him. At some point, he'll loose, and then you can force him to carry you as long as you wish.
You can keep teasing the man and tell him that you beat him, to encourage him to play with you again.
So this game is not a one-time shoulder riding, and also partially non-consensual.
Since the person entered the game out of his own free will and understood the consequences of loosing, I wouldn't see this as nonconsensual.
When I was carried on the shoulders of a man who was obeying my friend who was my carrier's master, his consent was based on his obedience to his master and his desire not to be shunned by him. Even my ex husband who submitted to my demands out of his desire for intimacy with me and ultimately to avoid the inevitable divorce couldn't be said to be a nonconsensual partner . At least not by my definition , and I subjected him to many things much more distasteful to him than sitting on his shoulders.
As an adult, I have only witnessed two men actually ridden to exhaustion in the hands and knees position. One that carried six different people on his back (separately of course) and one who carried a woman who is about one hundred pounds heavier than he was. It was quite amusing to watch and I wondered what it would be like to push a man that far. I usually tire of the game before things get to that point.
I've read in one of your posts that you rode on your ex husband shoulders until he was down on his hands and knees. Was he exhausted in this point?
When you squeezed his head with your thighs, you could have step hard on his hands to get total control on him, and keep sitting on his back until he falls down and lie on the ground. And then, by sitting on his head or face, you show your total superiority over him.
Can you describe other things you did to your ex which are much more distasteful than sitting on his shoulders?
My ex wasn't exhausted from me sitting on his back that day. He was tired from carrying me on his shoulders and was on his hands and knees because I squeezed his neck when he made a point of bouncing me around after I was already angry with him for bouncing me that way previously.
That incident happen before we were married. Once we were married I had much more control over him. My ex didn't even like me sitting on his lap , which was why I tended to like being on top of him in a number of ways. Of course I sat on his face in both sexual and nonsexual situations and sitting on his head was not at all uncommon. But that is rather off topic on this forum I think.
I think it suffices to say that letting my friends, both male and female play with him was the worse thing I did in his mind. He is very homophobic and also has a distaste for overweight people. My gay male friends enjoyed tormenting him and his dislike of heavy women specifically annoyed me because my mother was always very large and I remember her enduring unkind remarks and verbal abuse because of it. My mother was the most important person in my life and my greatest influence.
can you please share that story about the man that was ridden to exhaustion by carrying six different people? I guess it will be most interesting to hear how all of those got together and met with that purpose in mind and especially hear how long he has lasted
I believe I already shared that incident . The incident was at my home at a Halloween party and the man was the submissive , dressed as a "pony" when he entered while being ridden by the same man who became one of my closest friends. That close friend is also the one who took me on my first outing that was specifically about shoulder riding and loaned (?) me a reluctant carrier.
The pony-man at that Halloween party was not the same one who carried me on that first ride .
The pony man was ordered to remain on his hands and knees and other guest just naturally took to sitting on him and also riding him after my friend invited a few of them to do so.
It was hard on the man who served as a pony and sometimes a chair but it wasn't really sadistic. But people were drinking of course and that did slap his bottom to make him crawl faster and several times I saw two people sitting on his back while he was stationary.
It was while he was crawling with a guy who was dressed as a caveman sitting on his back that he fell and was all but unconscious.
I had asked my friend if he should stop the game but he was unconcerned and the people involved in playing with him were enjoying their game. It did become a little rude though and when the "caveman" got a little rough , sitting on the pony-man's chest after rolling him over, I asked my friend to stop the game, which he did.
At least 4 men and 2 women took rides on the pony-man that night. Some for several minutes . I can't say for how long because I was busy being a hostess much of the time. I can say that at least two people were larger than the pony man including the guy in the caveman costume. I was invited by my friend to sit on the pony-man's back early on, but I declined.
The people didn't simply come together for the purpose of riding him. It was a party and a lot of my friends and their friends have attitudes somewhat out of the mainstream. S/M, B&D, gays, swingers etc.
I'm very interesting in how women can overpower strong men by sitting on them.
Can you share your experiences of sitting on your ex? How did you convince him to be sat on? Did he refuse or struggle under you?
If you think this is off topic, we can chat by mail: firstname.lastname@example.org
thanks, you told us about that party of yours with that pony-man and how your friend was riding when he entered but I didnt know there was so much more going on with the 'pony' for the rest of the night which seems to be really interesting.
I think it's completely remarkable for him to keep going until it was obviously lights out. Some may say carrying six different people during all of the night (with rests in between) is not a big deal - but it really is. From my own experience I can tell that some riders can get you exhausted quicker than others depending on their riding style, the way and where they sit on top, what they are using you for etc. Once you are exhausted and you are allowed to rest for a short period you can regain some strength but you cannot fully recover (until resting for several hours). You may go on for some more time but will have to rest again. That will repeat until your muscle metabolism converted nearly all energy into lactic acid and you are completely exhausted - or in extreme cases go unconscious like that pony on your party. Mostly I guess riders wouldnt want their mounts to be exhausted up to that level for obvious reasons (unconscious carriers arent of any use, avoiding serious injuries etc.) but in a setting on a halloween party with different riders and alcohol involved it may become difficult for him to watch after his ponies exhaustion levels.
It's good thing he was used as a chair in between (I always welcome that as a chance to rest) but having two people sitting on him at the same he was probably running on his limits for a long time without his owner really noticing. By the way, I like how that friend of yours invited people for a ride on his pony - this really emphasizes the aspect of owning him. Pretty much like on a real horse - you just dont ride, you ask the owner first.
He was only temporarily unconscious I guess?
I'm not certain about the number or the sequence of the people riding or sitting on the pony-man.
As I said I was hosting the party and busy at times. I know at least 6 people rode on his back and some mounted him as soon as another got off him. He wasn't a young man either and not muscular at all. Just an average looking middle aged man with thinning hair.
The guy in the caveman costume probably sat on and rode on him more than once.
I had a few problems with him at subsequent parties after that and finally stopped inviting him.
I usually don't interfere with my guests but he is something of a bully and the pony-man was nearly unconscious when he plopped his fat butt on his chest. That's when I asked my friend to stop the game.
It was my friend's control over his human-horse that I found interesting and why I talked to him during much of the party. I don't normally occupy the time of a one guest or monopolize a gay man's time at a party , but he turned out to be very interesting as a person and is now one of my closest friends.
Normally I wouldn't want to ride on someone to the point of total exhaustion whether I was sitting on his shoulders or his back. He could be injured or even die and as you said, he would be useless if he couldn't carry me any longer.
However I am intrigued by the idea. My friend and neighbor that I mentioned previously did ride her submissive boyfriend, sitting on his back until he quite literally fell beneath her and couldn't move at all. He fell under her so fast that she was shocked . Of course the wind was knocked out of him too and she was angry for a moment.
She said it wasn't the first time and that he would be OK in a few minutes or so.
But she weighs at least twice as much as I do and is much heavier than the man she was on.
I would have to be much bigger and find a carrier who was really puny to experience this unless I was willing to stay on someone for a very long time and of course he was willing to keep crawling that long.
The short answer is that I can't.
I couldn't wrestle my ex down or keep him there by just sitting on him unless I could magically gain 300 pounds and was stronger than him. I taught him to obey and he learned to endure. He is stronger than most guys and even an average man should be able to take a woman's weight regardless of where she sits on him.
I didn't keep him down with my weight. He wasn't squashed by me when I sat on him but it was a punishment because he didn't like being sat on.
And at the risk of going off topic, one trick a friend taught me is to press your fingers behind the joint of the jawbone below a man's ear. There is a nerve there that will make him weak and unable to fight you off. It worked for me several times and I saw it work for other people.
I'm curious to know why did your ex husband allow you to sit on him if he didn't like ir. Did he ask you to get off him, or even ask you not to sit on him at all?
As for the pressing point:
I didn't hear about it, but I think that pressing your fingers into the man's eyes can be used to overpower him.
Last edited by m2ichaela (2018-02-25 12:38:19)
By the time I agreed to marry him, my (now) ex-husband agreed to obey me in virtually all matters.
I worked very hard on making him submissive to me for well over a year before I married him and continued after we married. I had his property in my name and a prenuptial agreement that was very much in my favor and quite binding.
I think there were aspects of surrendering power to me that he secretly enjoyed.
He did rebel several times and I kicked him out many times. He always came crawling back. He was probably as much addicted to me as in love.
For my part , he started as a challenge and I wasn't at all sure how far I would take things.
He is really rather intelligent but I found the chinks in his armor that I could exploit and manipulate . Sometimes it was tedious and other times it was fun.
Needless to say, I couldn't care less if he asked me to not sit on him or anything else.
Withholding sex and even contact was his punishment for refusing anything I put him to.
Now I think we have gone off topic as much as the moderators will allow.
There is other way you can make a guy to carry you. In a swimming pool, you can ask him to let you ride on his shoulders and ride him until he wants to stop, then you can tighten your thighs around his neck and sink his head under the water to make him continue. This can only works if the water level is high enough near to his chin and of course, you could make this just one time, because the next time he maybe would not let you ride him... I know, this happened to me years ago, but it was a playful game... I can not tell details, I was a teenager in that time... I just wanted to share the idea...
Probably it is almost impossible to ride someone without his cooperation. I would make a move named electric chair to release myself. Of course I would never make this move if a female rider were riding me (even if she were wearing spurs)...
Why are you interesed in non-consensual riding?
By the way this is the electric chair drop
I'm just interested in the subject of nonconsensual shoulder riding etc.
I'm just intrigued by the power aspect of someone sitting on another's shoulders and being carried just as one would ride a horse or other beast of burden who has no choice of who rides him or how long the ride may be.
I'm not at all certain I would take advantage of such a situation in all circumstances, but the concept is interesting.
I have some conflict of course because while the idea is intriguing, I also have strong feelings in opposition to human slavery. I'm also curious about other peoples views on the subject which also might conflict. Feelings vs morality etc.
Read this story:
Although it's more back riding than shoulder riding, the girl in the story use reins and spurs to control unwilling strong guy.
Is this realistic story? Can it be adjusted to shoulder riding?
Dragon - would you throw off a girl that threaten to hurt your balls with her spurs?
Last edited by m2ichaela (2018-02-28 23:51:46)
Realistic or not, I have met more than a few jerks who behaved like the "Blake" character.
His language might be a bit over the top for reality but his attitude is realistic enough.
As for adapting it to shoulder riding, I think that to really accomplish such a scene, the girl would need more than spurs and a halter. perhaps a cord tied around his scrotum as a threat with the other end in her hand .In my experience, males fear castration more than anything and even the threat of becoming a gelding would prevent him from trying to unseat her whether she was sitting on his shoulders or his back.
I have never used spurs on a man but I did wear them a few times. Just to feel sexy and dangerous. It was a game rather than real domination those times so I jabbed the mans ribs a little but not enough to really hurt him. I think in that girls case, with a rapist like the Blake guy, I would have raked the spurs like I would on an unruly horse when you have to show him who's boss.
I can't imagine wanting to put a saddle on a man however. If I sit on a man I want to sit on him, not a piece of leather.
i am a willing-to-suffer ponyboy, long time group member here.
I am strong built, like to give you shoulder rides handcuffed or or being otherwised restrained. I love power games, being on the suffering side
Are you interested?
thanks, wist best to all of us
About your question if I would throw off a girl that threaten to hurt my balls with her spurs? well, it is a difficult question because there is a conflict... I would never hurt a Girl, even if she were riding me like the Girl in the story does with that guy. I would be nice to her and if she threatens to hurt my testicles, I would ask her please not to do it, I would prefer to give her a ride than trying to throw her off.
Because I would not want to be hurt and I would not like to hurt her. But if there was not option, I should defend myself. My teacher said we shall never use fight skills to hurt persons. But he said if someone puts a knife on your troath and threaten to slice it, there is not another option and you shall fight for your life. There are some vulnerable spots on the human body and if someone tries to hurt you on those spots, there is not a game, this person is trying to kill you and you should fight back.
In the all fours position with an enemy on your back, I know two or three ways to escape and throw the enemy. I could grab his/her feet and I know a lock to break the enemy's ankle. But again, I would not like to hurt a Girl, especially if she were a beautiful one, dominant and a little violent like the Girl of the story. She is like the kind of Riding Mistress most carriers love.
I like the riding style of this Girl Br'er Rabbit. Maybe a rabbit can rides a fox, but can not ride a snake.
I was never interesed in carry Girls in all fours, (Although once, I made push ups with a
girl sitting on my back) but this story is interesting and make me feel curious about it...
It is difficult to find a female rider for shoulder riding, I guess is more difficult to find a female rider like the girl of the story...
Where is the second part?
And what happen to Br'er Rabbit and the fox?
About the idea of adapting the riding items of the story to shoulder riding, and that the girl would need besides her spurs and a halter a cord tied around the scrotum of the guy as a threat with the other end in her hand, it sounds like an evil idea, but more realistic to control the guy. It would hurts like hell! If I were in that situation, it would be more difficult to escape from. It would prevent me from trying to throw off or unseat her whether she was sitting on my shoulders or back. A little yank would be painful, I would prefer to give her a ride than feel pain. Besides, I would not want to hurt a Girl who were riding me. But, if it were an enemy, I can think on some moves to escape... it would be a big risk, only if there was not another way out. I do not want to be castrated, of course, but if there was not other option, I would fight. I can fear the threat of castration, but the shame of a defeat is a bad fate too...
I could do the electric chari driver
Or maybe it would not works...
In the hypothetical, I imagine that were I sitting on your shoulders as in that wrestling clip, and had that cord secured on your scrotum, such a fall would almost certainly result in you being castrated.
In trying to imagine such a position I think that when I felt myself falling I would instinctively pull the cord tighter rather than letting go of it. I also can't imagine allowing myself to fall forward like the wrestler did there even if the man I was sitting on held my legs in place. I know that these professional wrestlers rehearse these scenes so the results go as expected, but having been on the shoulders of boys who fell both forward and backward during chicken fights, I was never unseated during the actual fall, which was usually in shallow water. Obviously I had no intention of hurting the boy beneath me and he wasn't trying to hurt me but I instinctively held onto his head, hair or ears to avoid falling.
All of this is purely academic and I have no desire to create a eunuch , but rather to defend my general opinion that taking advantage of the vulnerability of the male scrotum would be a consideration in the control of the rider in regard to the question asked.
When you fell backward or forward during chicken fight in the water - if you were still sitting on the guy's shoulders then you could drown him underwater using your thighs. This could be a punishment for a guy that loose a chicken fight match, or a threat to encourage him to keep fighting. By drowning I don't mean to hurt or kill anyone, but just abusing the guy to get control over him.I assume that after several chicken fight and drowning turns, he will become too weak to throw you off
Another idea that come to my mind is shoulder riding in deep water, where the guy must move his legs and arms to prevent him from drowning. Could you ride a guy's shoulders in deep water against his will? Is this an advantage for the rider comparing to shallow water?.
I think in the matter of drowning my carrier, it would depend very much on the size and strength of the carrier. I imagine that if I had such intentions , it would be easier in water that was less than three feet deep , perhaps two feet deep would be optimal. In that depth the water wouldn't be supporting my weight when I was sitting on him so I would be putting more of my weight on him to keep his head under the water.
He might find enough footing under the water to fight me off of course but that might not be possible in the soft wet sand near the shore at the beach, particularly with me sitting on his neck and upper back.
Even then I would have to hold onto his head somehow unless he was very small or weak .
It's unlikely I could just sit on him until I drowned him.
I think if I was sitting on someone's shoulders in deeper water. Where his head was close to being under water, he could likely unseat me by ducking under the water and carrying me down with him.
Then even if I managed to grip his neck with my thighs it would be a question of which of us could hold his/her breath the longest. If he was reasonably strong, he might also pry my wet thighs from around his neck and escape completely because I think most people would become stronger when they are fighting in panic to get air.
Since I'm not normally homicidal, this question is purely hypothetical of course and I have rarely gotten angry with my carrier for losing a chicken fight. The only exception to this was when I was a teenager and at the beach without my boyfriend. I wanted to participate in the fun and the only boy available was skinny and kind of a nerd. He didn't really want to but I insisted and the other guys used peer pressure to force him into the game. His shoulders were bony and narrow and I could hardly sit on them and he needed help to stand upright with me on his shoulders.
I did my best to win but before I managed to pull a girl off her boyfriends shoulders my skinny carrier fell forward and took us out of the game. It was on land rather than in the water and he fell on his face with me still on top of him. I wasn't hurt but the shock of falling like that frightened me and that made me angry. I slapped his head before I got off of him. At that moment, if he had been face down in shallow water rather than in the sand, I might have considered sitting on his back longer and drowning him a little.
In regard to the deep water thing, I can't imagine how I might find myself sitting on a guys shoulders in deep water if he didn't willingly carry me there.
In the hypothetical, I imagine that you were sitting on my shoulders, and had a cord secured on my scrotum, like I said before, if I were in that situation, it would be more
difficult to escape from. It would prevent me from trying to throw off or unseat you if you were sitting on my shoulders. And more difficult if you use riding tools like in that story (spurs and... halters?). I would prefer to give you or my rider, a ride than feel pain or be injured. If I tried to escape from that position I think that when I tried to throw my enemy, he would let the cord go or I could grab the cord to avoid hurt. But you said that if you felt yourself falling you would instinctively pull the cord tighter rather than letting go of it. It would result in a really painful and dangerous situation. You said that having been on the shoulders of boys who fell both forward and backward during chicken fights, you was never unseated during the actual fall... you are a good rider Audreyb, with good balance... probably the electric chair drop would works to escape from an enemy on my shoulders, but probably not if you were the rider and use this cord and riding tools... I will think in other way to escape...
Of course this is hypothetical, if you were riding on my shoulders I would not throw you
off, you are a gentle person.
I read about your idea of electric dog shock collar for the control of the carriers.
It looks like a more gentle way for a female rider to control her carrier than that cord
and not very dangerous.
Clearly in the hypothetical, an electric shock collar would serve , at least until the burden of the carrier became more oppressive than the potential pain of the electric shock.
The collar would probably work to direct compliance from the carrier, but I must imagine that the carrier would rather endure the pain rather than die of exhaustion.
Likewise, I doubt that even if the shock collar worked in water (I have no idea in this regard) the desperate need to breathe would take precedence and only the weight of the person sitting on him could keep the carrier's/victim's head submerged.
In that instance of remaining on top of my carrier with his face under water, the period I sat on him was quite brief as I had no intention of drowning him.
I am aware of a person's violent struggles to breathe however, from other incidence involving smothering rather than drowning. In one case I was the victim myself, quite voluntarily in an experiment with a friend.
But in a case of actual suffocation in a homicide, I gleaned the details of a murder from several people in authority several years ago, involving a home invasion that resulted in the death of a very old man who was murdered by two young burglars.
The elderly victim was attacked in his bed and suffocated with his own pillow.
Since pillows are porous and very inefficient for this purpose, the forensic evidence proved that
one attacker sat on the pillow over the victim's face and the second sat on his chest to restrain him. This was indicated by the pressure marks of the pillowcase on the victims face and the impression of one of the buttons of his pajamas pressing on the victim's breast bone which even proved that the person sitting on his chest was sitting sideways rather than astride and they had sat on him for over ten minutes . The victim who was into his 80's and weighed 130 pounds struggled hard enough to break his finger nails and bruise his own skin with the seams of his pajamas while the two younger and heavier men sat on him.
As cruel as this information was, it demonstrated the desperation of the panic struggles of a person desperate to breathe. Since it would take only 5 minutes of oxygen deprivation to insure death.
The victim would have apparently fought for every bit of air while he was dying.
I have never been in a situation where I was carrying a girl and wearing an electric shock collar. But I guess it would not be so bad. But you are rigth, when you said that the carrier would rather endure the pain of the electric shock rather than die of exhaustion. I do not know, but probably a female rider would not shock her carrier if he can not walk more. Or am I wrong?
I certainly wouldn't continue to shock a carrier after the point of exhaustion.
Even if I take the issue of empathy out of the picture, crippling or killing the carrier would be quite impractical. Going to the extreme of such a situation, in considering the carrier as nothing more than a beast of burden, I would at the very least want him to be able to carry me back to whatever destination that was my goal.
I think any rational rider would have to consider that factor.
I do not know if you would feel empathy for your carrier or if you would ride him until the point of exhaustion.
Surely you would ride him until that point of exhaustion just to know how strong your carrier is. Yes, you are right that it would be impractical if he can not to carry you back to whatever destination you wanted go... I like your attitude, a female rider being selfish and only worried by her own comfort... What if you had two carriers?
Would you ride one until or beyond the point of exhaustion knowing that you can ride the other one to carry you back to your destination?
I believe that any rider should be concerned about her or his own comfort and enjoyment.
To do otherwise in recreational shoulder riding reduces the experience of the activity and makes it pointless.
But in the scenario you suggested in this topic, the nonconsensual riding would require an actual master/slave relationship.
If I imagine such an arrangement and it were possible and legal to literally own a carrier who by definition would have no choice in the matter at all, I might imagine pushing him to the limits of his abilities to extend his endurance or possibly as a punishment for some offense or failure on his part.
In that this is hypothetical and I can discount empathy for the sake of discussion, it would probably be practical to have a second carrier along to provide transportation back to my destination.
Based on my experience, even allowing a reasonable rest period would not be adequate to insure my (the riders) safety and comfort while sitting on a carrier who has previously reached the point of exhaustion.
I must imagine that as the owner of an actual slave, I would treat them much the same as I do my employees in that I would expect them to perform the take they were hired or (in this case) purchased to perform. Needless to say I don't hire people to carry me of course. But I must assume that in a world where a man might be considered property and a beast of burden, I would see things differently than I do in our current convention.
Probably many guys who like to carry Ladies on shoulders would enjoy a situation where they carried a Lady to the point of exhaustion. I myself can imagine a situation like this, where if I were a slave, I had to carry a Mistress on shoulders. It sounds like fun, but as you said Audreyb, a nonconsensual riding would require an actual master (or in this case, Mistress)/slave relationship. I guess that sooner or later, when I (or a carrier) had to deal with tiredness it would not be fun or enjoyable... specially if the Mistress had not any empathy for her slave and she were trying to make him carry her to reach his limits.
I imagine if like in the example you have mentioned, a Mistress were pushing me to the limit of my strenght to extend my endurance, I guess she would not wanted to hurt me very much or I would be useless for her future rides. But I guess she would not be really nice too... however, maybe it would be better for a slave to carry a Lady on shoulders than work in a mine...
Ms Audreyb, when you said that in a world where a man might be considered property and a beast of burden, you would see things differently than you do in our world where slavery is not legal... does it means that you would be cruel with your carriers, or would you be gentle with them?
the scenario you described is my ultimate fantasy. Being a beast of burden for sale, being used the way the rides desires, being punished the way the rider desires., being used to my limits and even further.
I have been looking for such an opportunity, anywhere in the world.
Unfortunately so far i haven't found any.
I would be neither cruel or kind in regard to a slave. I'm a practical woman and I can only imagine that I would treat a slave much as I would my employees in regard to the work I acquire them to perform.
Since the subject here is riding/carrying, I would use whatever incentive was required to have a slave perform his duties to my satisfaction. If this required physical punishment to ensure satisfactory performance, I would be inclined to use whatever was necessary and practical.
With a hired employee, my options would of course be dismissal which would end the contract.
However, since I would physically own the slave and be permanently invested in his performance, dismissal wouldn't be an option and I imagine I would have to take whatever steps were required to force the slave to comply.
This might also require pushing and extending his limits of endurance as well as ensuring my comfort by his positioning and walking gait from the moment that I sat on him. This would be very much the same as any other beast of burden I put to this task.
I would also require a slave/carrier to perform under anyone I designated to ride him and obey the person sitting on him regardless of who that person was. The slaves feeling, willingness or desires would not matter anymore than that of any other beast of burdens would.
If the slave were properly trained and performed as required, there would be no need to be cruel and in fact impractical to do anything that might damage him or impede his future performance .
I think there is always a grey zone between consensual/non-consensual in a rider/carrier or master/slave relationship.
I was once the slave in a relationship with a dominant woman who enjoyed shoulder riding and even though I liked these kinds of games I would more often than not be pushed outside of my comfort zone by her. There was an unspoken agreement that I had to obey her without question and breaking this agreement would come at a potentially high cost. Thus she would often ride me to exhaustion and as our relationship progressed she brought spurs and whips into the game making some of the rides quite painful for me.
I wouldn't say that the riding was not consensual but I certainly had to endure a lot to keep my Mistress happy. No complaints from me though. I was really lucky to have her as my Mistress :-).
I agree with your assessment in that consensual riding/carrying may, and often does imply a nonconsensual aspect.
A person bearing the weight of another person while taking direction from the person sitting on him can't logically be seen any other way regardless of the arrangement that brought this about.
I imagine a carrier could lift a no consenting person onto his shoulders and carry her/him against their wishes, though I would see this action as quite impractical and more of a momentary game.
I might also imagine that the roles, regarding who is dominating who might easily be reversed since the person being carried is already sitting upon the carrier and has him in a vulnerable position.